The Doom Confessional Booth

[Nick Perrin]

purist said:

Let me try.

Hahah thank you.

My point is that you can enjoy Doom in the most fun way without worrying about that by using the incredible SAVE functionality, which has been there since '93. Why someone would choose godmode 100% of the time over saving here or there is what's confusing to me!

[Aldaraia]

Auto-saving isn't even that big of a deal. What, you just move your middle finger up two inches to F2. There!

IMO, God mode turns Doom into an experience that is beyond vapid. You don't even have to think, just fire. Play ITYTD instead, you might keep around the game longer that way.

With the ranting done. I must mention that I still look at cacodemons as if they had two eyes, instead of one. I KNOW they have one eye, but looking them in the eye(s) has become too much of a subconscious reflex. Probably my favorite monster just because of this, they just look content to me.

[qoncept]

Nick Perrin said:

I still want to hear this explained.

If it's sarcasm, or if it's real, I want to know. It's so confusing a sentiment that I can't sleep at night anymore.

I used to play that way when I was a kid. It's not as fun as playing without god mode and winning, but it's more fun to me than dying in the same place over and over again.

[Nick Perrin]

Aldaraia said:

IMO, God mode turns Doom into an experience that is beyond vapid. You don't even have to think, just fire.

Indeed, this makes the issue even more confusing. One would think 100% godmode would render the game boring pretty fast, when exploration, atmosphere or the environment in most doom maps isn't worth seeing on its own compared to many other current titles you could cheat your way through and still really enjoy on that basis alone...

[Scypek2]

Aldaraia said:

God mode turns Doom into an experience that is beyond vapid. You don't even have to think, just fire.

Slaughterfest 2011 + IDDQD = more brain damage than when watching nyan cat.

[hex11]

I don't ever use save game. But I also don't use godmode. It really comes down to figuring out which skill level to pick for a given map (because some are much harder than others) to provide an interesting challenge. Saves are not useful for that, because it means there is effectively no challenge, as you just need to save before going into a difficult spot, and then you can retry it over and over again until you manage to get through it somehow. Saves remove the sting of death, and the constant aura of danger that permeates the game. Doom's save mechanism isn't even comparable to the classic arcade games that give you only 3 lives before the "game over" screen appears, because in Doom you have unlimited saves. It's more like the newer arcade games that let you pump in more quarters to "continue". Actually it's worse than that, because you can save at any arbitrary position, and have multiple save slots at your disposal.

[Platinum Shell]

I agree, I've recently been leaving saves alone and just playing on a "if you die, then restart with your pistol" basis.

IMO, much more fun that way. And you learn from your mistakes, right?


But still, saves are infinitely useful for when you need to put the game down to do something else, or you gotta run.

[jerrysheppy]

Nick Perrin said:

Indeed, this makes the issue even more confusing. One would think 100% godmode would render the game boring pretty fast, when exploration, atmosphere or the environment in most doom maps isn't worth seeing on its own compared to many other current titles you could cheat your way through and still really enjoy on that basis alone...

Exploration, atmosphere and environment isn't worth seeing in Doom compared to current titles?

Are you sure you don't have that the other way around?

I find many PWADs and even some of the original maps vastly more fun to explore and sightsee in, even with no risk of death from monsters, than the 'realist' or hard sci-fi shooters du jour. There are of course exceptions but they're thinner on the ground than one might think.

Anymore I usually play WADs on the lower skill levels which lets me fight some monsters and see the levels while hedging my bets against the chance that the mapper will decide that wall-to-wall revenants are an AWESOME idea.

[TwinBeast]

I play with mouselook and no autoaim. I aim for the monster's heads and other weak points, like cyberdemon's exposed belly, and think it kills them faster, and at the same time I know it doesn't.

[Szymanski]

Xaser said:

I loathe AV MAP24.

I've heard this more times than I'd like, I agree it's pretty messy.

The last wad I played was Plutonia 2. It's one of the only megawads I've beaten on UV (failed on AV, HR, Scythe2 et al).

I failed Action Doom but loved the sequel.

I didn't own a legit copy of Doom on pc until buying the collectors edition. I first beat Doom on the megadrive.

I had to resit my exams in year one of my degree because of Doom and Syndicate.

[DuckReconMajor]

Nick Perrin said:

Indeed, this makes the issue even more confusing. One would think 100% godmode would render the game boring pretty fast, when exploration, atmosphere or the environment in most doom maps isn't worth seeing on its own compared to many other current titles you could cheat your way through and still really enjoy on that basis alone...

When it comes to Doom, I put visuals over gameplay.

Go ahead and scream and shout and shit, but really, I don't do /newstuff reviews, or make any reviews for that matter. If there's a thread about a wad I'll give my opinion, but that's about it. So I'm not "forcing" my way of playing the game on anyone. If you want to disapprove of my enjoyment of a game, go ahead.

To me, killing monsters is more just something to do while exploring awesome looking levels. I've played through several megawads with godmode and enjoyed them thoroughly.

This was my frustration with Sunder. I love Sunder because it has some of the best looking levels I've ever seen. But there are no difficulty levels so even skill 1 kicks my ass. So I played through the whole thing like this. And I had a great time.

Yes, I can get through it if I try hard enough.

But at that point, I'm not having any fun.

hex11 said:

I don't ever use save game. But I also don't use godmode. It really comes down to figuring out which skill level to pick for a given map (because some are much harder than others) to provide an interesting challenge.

I play on skill 1 about 80% of the time. Getting to the end of a level and then dying is still annoying. Yeah the "intensity" of playing hard stuff with no saves is alright, but if I'm going to punch things to death to save ammo, I'm only going to do it once.

[Obsidian]

I skipped Scythe map28. It was sending me around the bend. T_T

[Nick Perrin]

DuckReconMajor said:

When it comes to Doom, I put visuals over gameplay.
...
To me, killing monsters is more just something to do while exploring awesome looking levels. I've played through several megawads with godmode and enjoyed them thoroughly.

I've done this several times as well. It's just not my main method of play. But I can really relate to loving the atmosphere and ability to just OBSERVE in a virtual world.

Obviously my post was really asking Arjak what his reasoning was, so it's not targeting you. But if your goal is atmosphere and visuals, why not pick up a game like Skyrim? (not saying Skyrim specifically, just any game with great atmosphere and exploration, that boasts stronger visuals and more dynamic aesthetics than Doom). At this point it's 2012, Doom is hella old, and gameplay is all it really has left. And why not just use the -nomonsters flag?

Also, Sunder is a bad choice if you're not interested in crazy hard slaughter... but that's a whole 'nother topic. Anyway I completely understand your approach because it's something I love to do as well, but I tend to outlet that desire in other games which do it better than Doom. But when it comes time for balls-to-the-wall action, Brutal Doom + a well-designed and tough mapset = my first choice. (Yes, I confessed this earlier in the thread, once I got used to Brutal Doom I never switched back. MUCH more fun/fast/intense than vanilla play, the extra gore is just a bonus)

[DuckReconMajor]

I'll admit I overreacted and I tend to extremize (that's probably not a word but oh well) my opinions when up against a seeming majority that disagrees with me. So no I don't really agree with a lot of what I wrote.

I had a really long response planned out but then I got a headache and realized Kyka probably said it better than I could a few pages back. I'm not looking for a challenge when I play Doom. I'm just here to shoot some monsters, see some sights, and have a good time. There are other games where I like to be challenged and beat the hardest difficulty. Doom's just not one of them.

I like Doom's visuals. Maybe it's the way the engine makes people build their architecture. Doom is old, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its own aesthetic. I could spend hours trying to figure out why and not get any closer to being able to put it in words.

This however I completely disagree with.

Nick Perrin said:

Also, Sunder is a bad choice if you're not interested in crazy hard slaughter... but that's a whole 'nother topic.

If that's what he wanted he shouldn't have made the levels so epic (I mean that in the dictionary sense) and beautiful. Mr. Gazebo can try to keep me out with hordes of monsters, but I have my ways of getting in.

And I have played through many AV levels in -nomonsters. It really is a different experience, you should try it sometime.

[Nick Perrin]

DuckReconMajor said:

This however I completely disagree with.

What I meant was if you're going to play a map "normally" and you don't usually play hard maps, playing Sunder "normally" is a bad choice when there are other maps far more suited to your skill level. That's all :)

DuckReconMajor said:

And I have played through many AV levels in -nomonsters. It really is a different experience, you should try it sometime.

Oh yeah, like I said, I have downloaded maps just to sightsee plenty of times. This becomes especially interesting when you make your own maps/mods. But it's not my primary way of playing maps, more of a secondary novelty. I just found it weird to make that the primary play style. Truth is I don't technically play doom maps "normally" anymore either, as I feel Brutal Doom really balances well with the vast majority of pwads and actually makes the core gameplay a lot more FUN. Faster, harder, more intense, sonically & visually more interesting (better feedback and feel, more dynamic gameplay overall).

Anyway, what you say makes perfect sense, and I understand liking the aesthetic of Doom. It's hard to describe, but I think at least one part of it is because of its age - a good-looking map is far more impressive when made on older tech, or with certain familiar limitations, and you can make out the clever tricks or design techniques used to achieve new and creative map styles/effects. There's just something cool about it.


So that's settled, but my question to Arjak still remains - "why not save your game?" I fear this might go forever unanswered, haha... At this point I think I can live without the answer

[DuckReconMajor]

Nick Perrin said:

What I meant was if you're going to play a map "normally" and you don't usually play hard maps, playing Sunder "normally" is a bad choice when there are other maps far more suited to your skill level. That's all :)

Oh ok. Yeah I agree. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I can try to answer your original question. I myself go into phases of saving and not saving. Saving is great but sometimes the hassle of trying to keep up with saves can make playing with out them refreshing. That probably sounds silly, but a few pages back we were discussing what Kyka called "eargosedown moments" where you save at a really bad spot. Well some players, like myself, do the opposite, avoid those moments so obsessively that we stress over the "perfect save" more than the actual gameplay itself. Sometimes I like playing like that, sometimes I don't. Maybe Arjak never likes playing that way.

[Archy]

I only save (in Doom) when I've found something interesting, such as a one in a lifetime bug, or to practice a trick, such as the Steffen Winterfeldt jump.

[Arjak]

Alright, I'll try to explain the whole God Mode thing.

When I was a little kid, I HATED losing at anything. I couldn't stand it. I was a spoiled little brat who had to win at everything, even if that meant cheating.

Playing in God Mode is a bad habit I picked up during that time. I still have it. I don't do it as much as I used to; I've tried to break it a little, but when I get frustrated with a level that makes me die over and over, I usually resort to IDDQD after a little bit.

Of course, that's probably the reason I'm not very good at Doom in the first place, and why I NEED to use it so often.

Irony sucks.

[Nick Perrin]

Arjak said:

Playing in God Mode is a bad habit I picked up during that time. I still have it. I don't do it as much as I used to; I've tried to break it a little, but when I get frustrated with a level that makes me die over and over, I usually resort to IDDQD after a little bit.

So basically it's just that god mode is more fun for you than using saves? (At first you mentioned having to restart a map with no weapons, which is remedied by saves on both points)

[Arjak]

Yeah, being too lazy to save when I'm doing well is definitely a problem. Don't worry, though! I plan to cure my God-Mode addiction! This illogical fear and frustration has gone on long enough!

[BaronOfStuff]

If I fall into an inescapable pit, I'll often IDCLIP/IDSPISPOPD my way out of it.

[ComicMischief]

Doom confessions?

- I am of the opinion that the SSG reloading clicks sound like chocolate tastes.
- I find Arachnotrons to be freakin' adorable. Seriously, they so cute.
- I have dreams about being in Doom levels (that don't exist) and I don't mind a single bit.

Last, but not least...

- I only got into Doom because I found an editor for it before a Quake editor, way back when. I loved Quake way more than Doom, but always wanted to make games in general so level editors were awesome for whatever game. However, I found myself idly playing the normal Doom levels after testing my own, and enjoying them. An obsession was born, you could say.

And sometimes, not often though, I double-IDDQD (degreelessness on, then off again) instead of reloading my savegame if it'll have more or less the same effect (like if I poked my head in a room, caught a projectile, ducked out again). I have no idea why, reloading would probably take less keypresses overall.

[Scypek2]

ComicMischief said:

- I find Arachnotrons to be freakin' adorable. Seriously, they so cute.

aren't they? I luv most of doom monsters <3

ComicMischief said:

- I have dreams about being in Doom levels (that don't exist) and I don't mind a single bit.

Isn't that great if you're mapper? (unless you can't recall them) I had one dream about doom level - really cool, even with secrets! I've drawn it in notebook and I'm going to create it at some point. Maybe without pokemons, though.

[Platinum Shell]

That's too awesome. Back when I was thirteen, I had this dream of a map called SLIME3; it had many tall towers with a little cage ontop with barons in it. It also had a space skybox too. I wish I could remember it better so I could make a map of it...

[Guest]

Scypek2 said:

I had one dream about doom level - really cool, even with secrets! I've drawn it in notebook and I'm going to create it at some point. Maybe without pokemons, though.

Well the obvious solution here is to make a vanilla version with regular Doom monsters, and a full blown Zdoom version full of pokemons, complete with cutscenes, and a skybox featuring Howl's Moving Castle. ;)

[BaronOfStuff]

I find the SSG to be overpowered, and will often play casual games with a tweaked version that fires less hitscans and uses all the reload frames before refiring.

[gun_psycho]

More personal Doom confessions of mine.

-I might be the only person that doesn't mind custom enemies so much, but even then, there were a few I REALLY couldn't stand. (The tornado demon and the poe enemies come to mind.)
-Every time I play a full megawad, I'm pretty much compelled to beat the secret levels and beat them before I continue beating the rest of each megawad.
-My personal runs on those megawads, not counting the ultra-difficult ones, are more or less blind runs, not being familiar with the layouts of those maps beforehand.

[K3K]

I can't finish wads that are 32 maps long unless its Demonfear and Scythe. Mostly because something else like another game/wad catches my attention and I can never finish because I forget all about it :(

[K3K]

Obsidian said:

I skipped Scythe map28. It was sending me around the bend. T_T

Yea I just skipped that map too. I skipped it because it frustrated me so much. But that was like 3 years ago when I sucked at doom :P

[K3K]

BaronOfStuff said:

If I fall into an inescapable pit, I'll often IDCLIP/IDSPISPOPD my way out of it.

I do that all the time. Can't stand to die just because of the inability to climb/jump out of a pit. Humiliating death if you ask me :P