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General Rainbow Bacon

Slaughterfest 2011

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Maps are looking great guys!

phml: dude your map has got me hooked at the moment. Ive been trying to finish it but damn if i dont keep running into my own problems lol. The first room seems to be the only issue for me really.. I like playing on the Hurt Me Plenty difficulty most of the time, and i have to admit I seemed to get nerfed ALOT in that first room.. There was 1 time i made it, played for a solid 30mins, and died... Forgetting all along to save. I was very miffed so i turned down the difficulty. Any hints on that first room? The lost souls always get me trapped some how. Also quick question, was it intended to have two chances to get a Invulnerability sphere in there? If you push the button you get one, and then there is one on top of the button?? This meant to be? Sorry if i just gave away secrets.

EDIT:
Um i must have been having a bad day yesterday or something cause i just flew threw that room on UV.. i dont know what possessed me to put it on UV but i did and some how i got threw it.. And then i found the secret in that room. Are you f-ing kidding me with that damn teleporter? How in the hell am i supposed to get through THAT with a shotty and a P-Rifle???!?!!??

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In UV, there's just the one switch invul sphere. I added another one on HMP on top of it to add as an additional visual clue as well as a boost.

You're not really supposed to get through the teleporter with just the plasma rifle, that's what the bodies right before the teleporter are trying to tell you. You can do it, mind you, and it is possible to get through that area with just the plasma rifle (or even plain SSG) by abusing infighting for a loong time, but if you get in too early, it's mostly intended as a trap of sorts that you'll remember not getting into too early next time. An "are you kidding me?!" moment indeed. ;)

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Thanks for the demos. I only tested the 5 submaps individually, so not sure if 5 in a row is too hard or might make replaying the earlier parts after each death repetitious.
Also, memfis, any weapon is intended to be used like normal (but the ammo available for each map is weighted to a specific gun). You beat the 4th in one try I think.

Edit: j4rio, I'll put another link in my previous post instead of speedyshare

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Phml said:

In UV, there's just the one switch invul sphere. I added another one on HMP on top of it to add as an additional visual clue as well as a boost.

You're not really supposed to get through the teleporter with just the plasma rifle, that's what the bodies right before the teleporter are trying to tell you. You can do it, mind you, and it is possible to get through that area with just the plasma rifle (or even plain SSG) by abusing infighting for a loong time, but if you get in too early, it's mostly intended as a trap of sorts that you'll remember not getting into too early next time. An "are you kidding me?!" moment indeed. ;)


Yes i did notice the 'lack' of inv-spheres on UV. But as i never really made it very far past the first room ( i got smart and saved when everything was dead..) i don't really know where they are all at. That blue key is going to be a bitch to be honest. I had no idea that it was at the middle of all that, and i should have known that the key wasn't going to be guarded. Your right though letting things in fight helped alot. Im a bit of a hard headed fool, cause ive been trying to run through there without visiting anything other then the first room.. So far ive managed to get my self killed a ridiculous amount of times. Just so you can laugh later, i got miffed once, hit the Inf-Ammo key, and fastweap key, and still got slaughtered.. I stopped after the first time cause somehow i had more luck without them.

EDIT: i started playing on the easiest setting just to say that i have beaten it (dont worry UV is still saved.. just getting to angry at the moment) and realised theres another blue key? Suppose the massive room is meant to be a trap only? Im not sure i like an only 37% monster kills.. Wait i get it go back before ending? Probably.. The blue key is kinda redundant though right?

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Two blue keys for two different paths. You can pick just one, or do everything.

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I'm starting to like Boom less and less.

I just switched from zdoom to prboom for testing and I get a lot of visual glitches. I traced it back to some flat rendering code that's probably buggy.

I tried this in chocolate doom, which just plainly crashes with an error like "R_DrawColumn: -3077 to 34 at 4", meaning it wants to start drawing pixels at (4, -3077). Prboom(+) is somewhat more lenient, but still crap. When you stand on certain lines, you see this:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13260068/BOOMCRAP.gif

The only way to prevent this is to lower my ceiling from 20128 to <8000, but that will negate my purpose of a big tower. It's like wanting to build an Eiffel tower to scale but there is an airport nearby and you can't build taller than 100m.

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Phml said:

Two blue keys for two different paths. You can pick just one, or do everything.


I don't know but the way i understand it. this is quite a bad way to represent it. Wouldn't 2 paths that lead to the same blue key be better than 2 paths that lead to 2 different blue keys) This would be a much better way to make it work in terms of gameplay. Then you could either choose to go back the same way for safety's sake or be that hardcore badass doomer who goes through all maps with 100% kills(without having to actually pick up 2 blue keys which is rather ehm stupid). The power of actual decision can be quite a turn on for people who enjoy good gameplay. However as I havn't actually played the map I suppose I'm not in the position to actually say something like that.

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I'm starting to like Boom less and less.

I just switched from zdoom to prboom for testing and I get a lot of visual glitches. I traced it back to some flat rendering code that's probably buggy.


Seems like the same problem my map is having. in Boom, no elevators work, there's HOMs everywhere, and some doors don't work. I don't have the ceiling height problem, though. I'd really hate to have to completely remake my map just for Boom support...

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TheSpazztikOne said:

Seems like the same problem my map is having. in Boom, no elevators work, there's HOMs everywhere, and some doors don't work. I don't have the ceiling height problem, though. I'd really hate to have to completely remake my map just for Boom support...

I'd really hate people that don't test the map in target port since the beginning. There's tons of Boom maps with elevators, which most certainly work. My guess that you didn't tag the lift sector.

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TheSpazztikOne said:

Seems like the same problem my map is having. in Boom, no elevators work, there's HOMs everywhere, and some doors don't work. I don't have the ceiling height problem, though. I'd really hate to have to completely remake my map just for Boom support...


I guess you skipped mapping in vanilla format for the sake of learning? Seriously, theese are not boom specific bugs or glitches I assure you. If you had tested the map properly in prboom while you made it you would have ran into theese problems and solved them by now. We are always here if you have any questions you know.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I didn't understand why people wanted to use prboom either when I was starting as a mapper. But I wanted people to record demos, speedrun etc, so I had to learn how to make the map compatible with prboom.

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@Icytux- I fail to understand exactly what is the problem with having two different blue keys in a map, whereas I can see direct and significant drawbacks to having just two paths leading to the same blue key in my map.

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I'm not sure what to do now. I keep testing the map over and over again, and each time, placing a different lift action on the sector its designed for. I know it works under all versions of Zdoom, and some other formats, but I even tried to make the map under Boom format, and it still refuses to lower the lift each time I try to use it. Can someone help me out with this?

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TheSpazztikOne said:

I'm not sure what to do now. I keep testing the map over and over again, and each time, placing a different lift action on the sector its designed for. I know it works under all versions of Zdoom, and some other formats, but I even tried to make the map under Boom format, and it still refuses to lower the lift each time I try to use it. Can someone help me out with this?


I just opened your map. You havn't assigned ONE SINGLE sector tag. And in what format are you mapping in? I got some unknown triggers when I opened the map in boom format.

Tip: If you set a linedef to action "sr lift lower wait close" then you must tag that linedef "1" for example. Then you have to tag the sector that will be the lowering platform with "1". The same goes for any doors except the "dr" ones.

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Cool map gggmork, little too easy to exit though (got it in 40 seconds and haven't even tried). Maybe some switches throughout each map chunk or bars lowering for a minute or two in front of exit teleporters might help it.

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Okay. I added sector tags and linedef tags to the lift like you said, but the thing still refuses to move anywhere. I'm using the Boom format. Oh, and I just checked the map, there's not any unknown triggers, as far as i'm aware of. I'll check again, though. But anyway, the lift is a faulty one. Not sure what to do.

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I just tagged the lift and then it worked. I dunno what your'e doing wrong man, but I think you need to learn the basics of editing :/ The map wasn't that great either. Tons of missing textures and flats. Not a single door was lower unpegged and the texture weren't properly aligned anywhere. The missing triggers I was talking about is on that bridge at the start of the map. Also, the shotgun is placed in such a weird manner that it's tricky to pick it up.

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I know. I meant for it to be a Map01 thing. Can you send me the fixed map, please? Oh, and i'll fix the shotgun thing. Truthfully, that map was made when I first started mapping like 2 years ago. So it must be crappy. I'll see if I can fix texture alignment if you send it. despite how long i've been working on maps, though, I'm not any good at the tagging.

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Sorry I switched to prboom later on. I didn't expect there to be incompatibilities if I just selected the 'Boom' profile in Doom Builder. I only downloaded it to play the demos you guys posted, and because my map started to lag in ZD at 2048x1536 (doesn't lag in prboom's 640x480 fortunately, but now I have visual glitches)

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j4rio said:

Cool map gggmork, little too easy to exit though (got it in 40 seconds and haven't even tried). Maybe some switches throughout each map chunk or bars lowering for a minute or two in front of exit teleporters might help it.


Good point that I thought about too. Its designed for uvmax though, not speed, and gameplay is currently focused on freely roaming in any chosen path to kill all monsters as fast as possible with no peripheral path-confining distractions like switches. There's not even a speed incentive to do all the fighting while cherry picking the exit, because there arre 4 exits so one is always close no matter where the last monster dies.
Ideally, the exits would immediately lower when all monsters are dead but there's no boom way to do that.
Having exit-blocking bars slowly lower over time would have no affect on uvmax (just speed), since you have to hang around until all the monsters are dead anyway, other than potentially having to wait for them if you kill all the monsters faster than they lower. I guess they could be designed to lower all the way when fighting should be approximately half way done. Even then the speed route would be based on the timing of these lowering bars so just about every speed run would have nearly the same time.

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You know, as I have been reading the last several posts, a question comes to mind: why insist on prBoom? Why not use zDoom or gzDoom? You don't need to know ACS or DECORATE to take advantage of the more numerous linedef specials, and the rendering code is more stable to boot. I know it's too late to have everyone switch port in the middle of a project, but I'm just curious about the prBoom preference.

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Demo compatibility is probably the biggest part of PrBoom's appeal, among some other things.

Since slaughter maps and competitive demo play usually go together, it wouldn't make sense to aim the project for (G)ZDoom, which places low priority on keeping demos compatible between versions.

Also, maps designed for a "Boom+" target will play correctly in most of the popular ports, whilst ZDoom maps won't, so it's a nice way to gain a massive degree of flexibility over plain vanilla maps without restricting the player base to a certain engine.

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If it's not boom compatible, it doesn't get into this pack. End of story. Don't get me wrong, i like zdoom, but the goal of this was to make good, competitive slaughtermaps. Period.

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To play devil's advocate, one could specify a given version of ZDoom for demorecording on the project. It is, of course, much less convenient to keep a specific ZDoom around just for specific demos, to the point that people might just prefer to forget about it entirely.

Personally, I have numerous reasons to prefer Boom mapping over ZDoom, and all of them more or less boil down to ZDoom being too strong, too customizable.

Making sure the player has the right compatibility options, settings and so on seems hard ; as I said earlier about something else, I think expecting people to read instructions before playing is too much. Maybe there's a way to force settings in ZDoom that I just don't know of. Boom has the advantage of being a stable standard that is more or less set in stone, you just map and know people will likely be able to experience the map exactly as you intended, or very close to it, if they start it in (i.e.) PrBoom+.

In ZDoom, being able to do so many things compared to the original game also means you're going to end with many different visions, and many different sorts of gameplay. Here's an example : take TimeOfDeath's maps. Most of what he does for Doom/Boom I have a blast with and think the gameplay in it is fantastic. However, he also did rocketjumping maps for ZDoom/ZDaemon, and that stuff is just not my thing, I generally can't manage it, and even when I can, I don't enjoy it.

Much like the pixelly low-res look of Doom has its charms over hi-res stuff because your imagination is left to fill the gaps in the best possible way, the gameplay limitations of the original game has its uses as it can unite people around a core playstyle, people that might actually like widely different things in Doom given complete freedom.

Which leads to my next point (opinion?): it seems the ZDoom userbase as a whole doesn't care much for the slaughterish kind of gameplay, or even hard "classic" style gameplay. There are very few ZDoom wads like that, and these receive little attention. On the other hand, there are numerous projects with bazillions of monsters, or even modes like the Invasion stuff in Skulltag, but all the ones that I played seem to have little thought put into it and don't provide an experience on par with what many tightly balanced maps for Doom/Boom can deliver, at least to me.

I could be interested in a slaughtermap project for ZDoom (Slaughterfest 2012? ;) ), but I believe it would really require strict guidelines right from the start rather than "hey guys let's map you have a month" like we can do for vanilla/limitremoving/Boom in order not to end up being lackluster... And probably lots, lots of learning from the mappers themselves. If I couldn't find out how to disable vertical rocketjumping specifically for my maps, I'd probably throw my arms up in disgust and just walk away, because it just removes so many layout options on the vertical axis (and adds other, different ones of course, but as I've already said, rocketjumping just isn't my thing).

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DoomHero85 said:

If it's not boom compatible, it doesn't get into this pack. End of story. Don't get me wrong, i like zdoom, but the goal of this was to make good, competitive slaughtermaps. Period.


And zDoom is incapable of being host to good, competitive slaughter maps? I'm not being obtuse, I'm just trying to get the reasoning here. So far, the bit about demo compatability sort of made sense, but other than that I don't see why zDoom is viewed as unviable for such a project. Bear in mind, I'm not saying that your pack should be changed, I'm speaking hypothetically here.

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DoomHero85 said:

It's also that boom handles the large numbers of monsters better too. I can't run a 10k monster map in zdoom for shit, but prboom runs it fine.


I won't tell you how to build your maps, but I'm tempted to consider anything over 3k ludicrous. That's just me. Yeah, zDoom won't handle 10,000+ , so if pure monster count does it for you, then I can see why you wouldn't want to use anything else.

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And zDoom is incapable of being host to good, competitive slaughter maps? I'm not being obtuse, I'm just trying to get the reasoning here. So far, the bit about demo compatability sort of made sense, but other than that I don't see why zDoom is viewed as unviable for such a project. Bear in mind, I'm not saying that your pack should be changed, I'm speaking hypothetically here.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQq54dSGxyS9lKHfewuSKhNMKiUJUFdEH58ClREZMFEDYvUsA1wUA

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