Rail gun: one thing that should definitley NOT be put into doomX

[Wobbo]

1. Its too specific to quake, the most unoriginal weapon ever ( a powerful better aiming pistol)
2. The railgun basically ruined deathmatch, with the camping increased, and so many railgun only servers
3. The weapon has made every game its included in an aim contest- not always a bad thing- but usually lowering strategy and actual tatctical skill. Not saying that doom should be less visceral, but id has said itself its going for more slow paced, possibly limited to only 8 players

[Zaldron]

I don't mind if there's a railgun in Doom. As long as they make it right. A railgun doesn't make a fixed amount of "damage". It depends on the overall size of the target. It's like with powerful pistols, shoot from too close and you'll make quite a perfect hole on the body, shoot from a couple of meters and you'll leave an exit hole three times bigger.

[Dark-tenshi]

rail gun's concept is similar to sniper rifle.high-damaged,slow rate of fire, long ranged weapon.either of these weapons should be included in DOOM3.(sniper rifle should be inculded,IMO)

[Zaldron]

There's no really big problem if you implement the rifle. I mean the game's about corridors, not outdoor areas. There will always be some intense action. A rifle against a Demon rushing at you isn't that useful.

It's not like it would break the Doom violent gameflow. Just think at is as a very powerful shotgun with no spread and a pair of binoculars. Useful for hurting them enough before it gets personal. Ammo should be limited, though, and completely inaccurate while moving. That should fix the railgun craze for the "camper effect" wich IMO is a valid gameplay tactic and doesn't really affect me. Besides it's deathmatch, it's not like you're forced to idle for 2 minutes like in CS. Just respawn and kick the shit out of that guy.

[Linguica]

Doom 3, from all indications, seems like it is going to be an enclosed game with few large/outdoor areas if any. Much like Quake 1. In a game like that, a railgun isn't that great of a weapon since there's seldom long distances to use it over. Let's just hope id doesn't put in an overpowered rocket launcher...

[Dark-tenshi]

talking about the rocket launcher,how long the reload time should be?personally,i want fast reload RL.but it should't be too fast (like Q1).reload time for DOOM rocket launcher should be the same length as Q2)

p.s. slow reload time RL-half life's RL

[pritch]

Bah. I like large outdoor areas.

[Lord FlatHead]

Oooh, a weapons thread. My favourite !

For one thing, I do NOT want to see the kind of wimpy rocket launcher we had in Quake 2 & 3. Rockets should reload fairly slow, fly very fast and cause a BIG explosion. And make a lot of noise.

I mean shit, in Quake 3 you can fire like three rockets a second, the explosions are like two feet tall and you can bearly hear them. I'd like rockets to be pretty rare in Doom 3, very powerful and used for special situations.

[Naked Snake]

Here is a few guesses I have for weapons (well, a pretty short list, but these are guns I can THINK of being in DooM 3 and of course there will be a few surprises)

Melee-punches or a knife
Some kind of pistol, maybe a revolver or possibly a 9mm or .45
The shotguns
An assault rifle
Rocket launcher
Grenade launcher
A new plasma gun, maybe a flamethrower
Some kind of BFG
Some demonic weapons
Railgun (sorry, but I do think a Railgun will be in DooM 3)

Now, none of these weapons (except the rocket launcher I think) have been confirmed so like I said, they are just guesses.

[dsm]

Hmm, I'm surprised that Lord Flathead isn't displeased with this topic, taking his recent "The rise and fall of the Doom 3 forum" thread into consideration.

All this has been discussed to death already.

[Tetzlaff]

I wouldn´t mind if there is no Railgun in Doom3, since there´s Quake4 in development, which should definitely have a Rail, and it fits much better into Q4 with it´s Strogg war theme anyway.

But you obviously don´t understand the Railgun concept. It´s not just a cheap ass sniper rifle!

1. Its too specific to quake, the most unoriginal weapon ever ( a powerful better aiming pistol)

It´s one of the most original weapons, a weapon that is not just a gimmick like some of the Unreal weapons for example.

2. The railgun basically ruined deathmatch, with the camping increased...

One of the good aspects of the railgun is that it´s NOT camper friendly! Because the rail trail immidiatly reveals the sniper´s location! When you look at the gameplay the Railgun creates in Q2 and Q3, you should notice that good railers don´t camp, but move arround quickly. Very different to sniper rifle gameplay.

3. The weapon has made every game its included in an aim contest- not always a bad thing- but usually lowering strategy and actual tatctical skill.

Yeah I agree with the last point. Another good reason to leave the railgun out of Doom3.

[deathz0r]

For one thing, I do NOT want to see the kind of wimpy rocket launcher we had in Quake 2 & 3. Rockets should reload fairly slow, fly very fast and cause a BIG explosion. And make a lot of noise.

Quake 1 rockets. Least powerful rockets I've ever seen.

[Wobbo]

Hmm, I'm surprised that Lord Flathead isn't displeased with this topic, taking his recent "The rise and fall of the Doom 3 forum" thread into consideration.

All this has been discussed to death already.

Im almost 100% sure this HAS NOT been discussed yet

Either way, in my defense this is about more than just weapons, the REAL point is that deathmatch should be about more than aim. In the original doom, it was strategy and tactices, in quake 1 it was calculations and physics. I wan doomX or 3's deathmatch and singleplayer to be more about tactics, hiding, getting cover, calculating wether or not youll survive a battle, etc. Quake 2 turned it into an accurate-mouseclicking contest, which got boring after a while. Quake 3 addressed this a little more, but not enough.

Oh and i read the rise and fall thread before posting this

Now, about the camping issue, a particle trail DOES NOT HELP you if youve just been killed after respawning or are just getting out of a battle. Also teh reload time is a double edged sword: Its frustrating to the user if its too long, but its impossible to survive a player skilled with the railgun if the reload time is short.

I didnt even think about Quake 4, that gives me hope

[dsm]

Well, this thread seems to me as being about the railgun. And I've seen several topics about the railgun before (both specifically about the railgun and the railgun + other weapons).

But I wont discuss that further as it's rather pointless.

About the actual topic itself: I've never really liked the railgun. To me it's just like some sort of highly accurate and highly powered energy beam weapon (that was my first impression, but I quickly found out that it used slugs).

I don't care whether the concept of the weapon is cool or not, but I think the weapon itself is avarage - nothing too fantacular about it...

I don't know if I would like seeing it in "Doom 3" as I don't give a jellyfish about Deathmatch, but if it IS going to be in Doom, which I really doubt (Quake IV comes to mind as already mentioned), then they'd better make it good.

During the few Quake deathmatch games I've been into, I've consequently avoided the railgun like the plaque - I only got frags with it when I was lucky, plus the other weapons always seemed a lot more gratifying and less frustrating to use.

[Zaldron]

The railgun would be the natural evolution of .50 caliber rifles. These aren't really designed to take off people but pierce tanks and other vehicles armor. In Quake2 it was highly useful because there were a lot of stroggos that resembled light-armored combat vehicles. The railgun was a favorite against those creatures with really really high health values.

[dsm]

Well, I always had a shitload of rockets and grenades to hurl at the big tanks, so when I wasn't full on rockets and grenades, I had full on railgun slugs.

I hope Id wont put too much ammo in the Doom 3 levels (at least not on highest skill setting) - I hate when I'm drowning in ammo.

[IMJack]

If Doom 3 is as claustrophobic a game as the early screens suggest, a railgun isn't gonna do you much good. Especially if the monsters are on top of you and clawing before you can see them. Doom 3 should be all about melee and close range/splatter weapons, much like Doom and Doom 2 were. The fist and chainsaw certainly, and the shotguns, and maybe an SMG or a carbine for all-purpose fighting. And hand grenades, as a reasonable replacement for a rocket launcher.

I agree that man-portable railguns will be the sniper weapons of the future (though maybe not the terribly near future). As Gauss weapons technology gets smaller, we'll eventually see assault rifle- and SMG-sized guns that use railgun tech. Won't be as powerful, but will certainly be more versatile, especially in airless environments where black-powder weapons can't work.

[Lord FlatHead]

Make a railgun of your own.

[Zaldron]

Hah, another Shacker. I only have 3 steel balls, but it does seem to work.

[dsm]

The fist and chainsaw certainly, and the shotguns, and maybe an SMG or a carbine for all-purpose fighting. And hand grenades, as a reasonable replacement for a rocket launcher.

How about good ol' mr. portable destruction (chaingun) instead of wimpy SMGs?
And the rocket launcher WONT be replaced by grenades as it's already announced to be in the game - but grenades/a grenade launcher is a must.

[Erik]

RL should be like the one in the old Doom but with a slower rate of fire and a louder bang with slightly higher damage. That is.. a direct hit should make ~250-300 damage (with a monster hp distribution similar to Doom II) and nearby enemies should take from 0-200 damage depending on distance from the impact.

[StarFyre]

I think the railgun should be in, since it's cool in long alley fights since it can go thru things.

As well RE the rocket. I'd like it to be slow firing, very fast and massive blast radius. Like it should be...maybe enough to take out a very large room like 10 meters by 10 meters or more. Having a small shockwave for effect and a spreading fireball would be kinda cool too.
(like in avp)

the guns i want in the game:

* chainsaw
* m16-a2 with undercarriage m203 (hey, you're a soldier..a pistol don't cut it as a starting weapon :)
* M60
* jackhammer automatic shotgun
* minigun (btw, chaingun is NOT a gatling gun, chaingun refers to chain fed machine guns..minigun is the term for the gatling versions)
* railgun
* plasma rifle
* rocket launcher
* flame thrower
* something new and cool
* something new and cool along BFG naming line of guns

if they got more guns, like how descent 2, and 3 had 2 guns per button, then some demon weapons would be interesting (albeit not really within the style of the game though)

THanks.

Sanjay
ICQ: 3081429

[dsm]

* m16-a2 with undercarriage m203 (hey, you're a soldier..a pistol don't cut it as a starting weapon :)

First: The game takes place in the future, meaning that the m16-a2 would be horribly obsolete.
Second: A pistol fits perfectly as a starting weapon (US troops have side-arms y'know) - the assault rifle, however, is not a bad idea, but it should be a later weapon.

* jackhammer automatic shotgun

An autoshotgun = a shotgun without the immortal *chuck-chack* reload sound+animation = boring CS-style shotgun.
In other words: That would suck imho.

[IMJack]

WISH-LIST ALERT!

* m16-a2 with undercarriage m203

Ever seen Starship Troopers? You know the Morita assault rifle they use? :) A secondary shotgun would probably be more useful than a secondary grenade-launcher in close quarters.

* M60

Redundant next to the chaingun.

* jackhammer automatic shotgun

Someone's been playing Fallout 2, I see. :)

* minigun

A minigun is neither mini, nor a gun. It is a lead hose. And even without any ammunition at all, the smallest miniguns weigh far more than any human can carry. The Predator-style chaingun used in Doom (2) is a bit more believable in that regard.

* something new and cool
* something new and cool along BFG naming line of guns

Wow. Lotta help there. ;)

[StarFyre]

The gun in Predator IS a minigun...a 7.62 mm version.

They are called minigun. You can even hear them refer to it in PRed. and T2.

Yes a person can't use it..but hey..if you r running around with so much ammo in fps games...a little fantasy is fine :)

hehe

A chaingun is not = to a minigun..it can be..but isn't always...where as a minigun = a gatling gun.

Thanks.

Sanja

[læmænt]

Instagib arena is awesome in UT.

[Castlevania]

weapons: things that should DEFINATELY not be in the new doom

REAL marines dont need weapons, they just use clenched fists to fight
with!

[dsm]

I never understood why the Heck this weapon was called a minigun - because it's really small compared to the damage it deals out?
At any rate: starfyre is actually right it IS called a minigun - M134 General Electrics minigun if memory serves me correctly, and there are two types of this particular gun: One that uses calibre 7.62 and one that uses calibre 5.56.

[FragaGeddon]

I think it should have the rail gun.

[Fredrik]

It should definitely not have a railgun. There are many reasons why, including:

1. The railgun is suited for fast-paced open-area gameplay. DOOM 3 will probably be slow-paced and have closed areas.

2. It's a god damned deathmatch weapon :)

3. Never liked the feeling of that weapon anyway