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esselfortium

Doom II is actually pretty great :-)

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Doom II is a great game that gets a terrible reputation in the fandom for reasons that largely seem to defy explanation.

Not only did it add the super shotgun and a host of mid-level enemies that vastly increased gameplay possibilities via countless new types of attacks, but the level design is consistently high-quality, inventive, and interesting. In fact, the level design of nearly every map is noticeably more advanced than that of Doom's registered episodes, and Romero's contributions are far grander and more epic than any of his work on Knee-Deep In The Dead.

Nothing in Doom's Hell episode even approaches the vast, imposing abyss of Romero's "The Living End" (of which "Gotcha!" serves as an effective companion). Maps like Romero's "Industrial Zone" and Petersen's "Downtown" take the open sandbox-layout style of gameplay first explored in Doom's "Mt. Erebus" and tackle it far more adeptly. McGee/Petersen's "Dead Simple" might very well be the only enjoyable boss map in the entire Doom series.

Doom II also gave us a ton of awesome new textures, including among them the METAL2 and TEKGREN sets, grass flats, and the tan bricks you can find in basically every map Afterglow has released, just to name a few.

And if that weren't enough, the game engine's limits were significantly increased and various bugs were fixed to allow Doom II's taller, more complex, and more grand-scale levels to exist in the first place. Imagine vanilla mapping without those!

Doom II: Actually a pretty good game, now that you mention it!

What are your favorite parts of Doom 2?

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I disliked Doom 2 because the hell levels didn't resemble any kind of hell at all. Where's the fire and brimstone? Why is the Icon of sin such a terrible boss? Why does the revenant look like a skeleton in a football jersey?

Discard the last two, but I really disliked most of Doom 2's texturing and level design.

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This thread is actually pretty great. :-)


Also, Spirit World and Living End rock more than an acre of boulders.

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the SSG changed Deathmatch forever. map01 and map07 are still two of the best deathmatch layouts ever made.

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Marnetmar said:

I disliked Doom 2 because the hell levels didn't resemble any kind of hell at all.

Which ones?

Where's the fire and brimstone?

In The Spirit World and The Living End. Where were you looking?

Why is the Icon of sin such a terrible boss?

It had to live up to e3m8's legacy somehow.

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That thread I made earlier was clearly a joke. The real reason I don't quite like it is because it just didn't seem to have the charm that the first one did, it felt lacking somehow.

Now, for what it added, like engine additions, new textures, enemies, decorations, other actors, and the super shotgun, it made up for the lack of charm the original the original had. PWADs are Doom 2 one of the main reasons I like it.

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esselfortium said:

Which ones?


MAP21, MAP22, MAP23, MAP24, MAP25, MAP26, MAP27, MAP30.

They're all supposed to be inside hell, I don't see any hell.

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Marnetmar said:

MAP21, MAP22, MAP23, MAP24, MAP25, MAP26, MAP27, MAP30.

They're all supposed to be inside hell, I don't see any hell.

Have you ever been to Hell? Most of those maps fit pretty easily into the "surreal Hell" interpretation of it.

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But they don't give off that same "you're actually in hell" feeling that the E1 levels did.

Hell levels, in my opinion, require three essential things. Black, red, and fire (as in animated fire textures or lava). Not brown, green and a couple of torches.

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Doom2's hell levels creeped me out a lot more than Doom1's. Probably cuz they were so surreal and fucked up. The base levels are really dark too (in a good way.)

Doom2 kicks ass!

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Marnetmar said:

But they don't give off that same "you're actually in hell" feeling that the E1 levels did.

Hell levels, in my opinion, require three essential things. Black, red, and fire (as in animated fire textures or lava). Not brown, green and a couple of torches.

There wasn't really anything in the way of black-and-red Hell theming in either game. And I'm going to assume you meant the E3 levels, which I'm currently struggling to think of any redeeming qualities of, and not E1, which was decidedly not set in Hell.

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Yeah I meant E3. But look at the red rock textures, the red bricks. They look like they're actually red hot. Look at the mutilated bodies nailed to the walls, look at the walls made of flesh. Look at the dark corridors and animated fire textures.

THAT is what I define as hell.

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Doom 2 has a feel and rhythm to it all throughout. Doom 1 has that in E1 but the others don't flow quite as well. I still say E1 is better than Doom 2 but doom 2 better than the other 3 ep's in UD.

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Marnetmar said:

But they don't give off that same "you're actually in hell" feeling that the E1 levels did.

Hell levels, in my opinion, require three essential things. Black, red, and fire (as in animated fire textures or lava). Not brown, green and a couple of torches.


While I do agree to an extent, the final episode was supposed to be Hell on Earth, a place made by humans the demons transformed.

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Fuck yall who hate on Doom 2. Doom 2's maps are awesome. Even if they don't follow a progressive storyline (at least that of which is easy to interpret) it is easily the best possible set of levels to play when you need ideas for making maps with good gameplay. The entire set of levels applies different styles for any player with a different layout of weapons and monsters and areas to fight in.

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I think it is the same reason why people hate on TNT as well. TNT, much more so than Plutonia, was intended as a sort of "Doom2 Plus", a bigger badder, expanded Doom2.

Every map in Doom2 is unique, and every map sets out to have surprising, nay, terrifying gameplay. I remember many 'firsts' playing through Doom2, stuff that had simply never been done before.

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DuckReconMajor said:

People prefer Doom 1 to Doom 2 for the same reason people would rather play Doom than modern games.

Doom 2's regenerating health and quick-time events weren't that bad!!

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

I think it is the same reason why people hate on TNT as well.

A little bit off-topic, but please tell me I'm not the only one that despised MAP02's music. It just went on with that grating noise, and it was just annoying sounding.

One time I was incredibly sick, and I had TNT MAP02 running in the background, but I was too sick to get up to turn it off. So there I was, laying on my bed, feeling like puking, getting my ears raped by one of the worst songs in any IWAD to ever exist. Seriously, I had to put up with it for 30 minutes until my mom got home and I asked her to turn my speakers off.

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Doom2 is more actiony, doom 1 is more sci-fi horror.

I never compared the two. I like both, but doom2 has alot more better maps. DOOM1 E1 was amazing though, and so was E3.

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Sodaholic said:

A little bit off-topic, but please tell me I'm not the only one that despised MAP02's music. It just went on with that grating noise, and it was just annoying sounding.

One time I was incredibly sick, and I had TNT MAP02 running in the background, but I was too sick to get up to turn it off. So there I was, laying on my bed, feeling like puking, getting my ears raped by one of the worst songs in any IWAD to ever exist. Seriously, I had to put up with it for 30 minutes until my mom got home and I asked her to turn my speakers off.


Wait. What's wrong with TNT MAP02's music, now?

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

I think it is the same reason why people hate on TNT as well. TNT, much more so than Plutonia, was intended as a sort of "Doom2 Plus", a bigger badder, expanded Doom2.

Every map in Doom2 is unique, and every map sets out to have surprising, nay, terrifying gameplay. I remember many 'firsts' playing through Doom2, stuff that had simply never been done before.


I love TNT.

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esselfortium said:

Wait. What's wrong with TNT MAP02's music, now?

I absolutely hate the high pitched screaming and whining guitar and guitar harmonics. It just sounds bad to me. Seriously, listen to the song loop over and over (for at least 15 minutes), and you will hate the song.

The tune itself was obnoxious to begin with, but add on that horrid sounding instrumentation, and it sounds hideous.

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Sodaholic said:

I absolutely hate the high pitched screaming and whining guitar and guitar harmonics. It just sounds bad to me. Seriously, listen to the song loop over and over (for at least 15 minutes), and you will hate the song.


I think I heard someone say that MAP02's music was glitched and wasn't meant to sound like that. Don't take my word for it though.

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TNT Map06 (Open Season) has the worst song in any Doom game. Ever.

Well, save for D_RUNNIN.

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Hell no man, D_RUNNING is awesome! And a lot of the other Doom II music is great too. Whereas most of the new stuff in Final Doom is meh. They should have just simply reused the existing tracks in all their maps. Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone ever put together a decent music PWAD for Final Doom...

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Doom 2 has a bad reputation among some Doom fans for complete bullshit reasons.
Just count the innumerous Dead Simple hommages in custom wads and you will notice that Doom2 is actually popular. Or the fact that practically every wad is based on Doom 2 to make use of the additional monsters and the Double SG.

My personal first Doom experience was Doom 2 and it got me hooked. I also love the first Doom, but mostly episode 1 because of the coherent Romero style and the great layouts.

esselfortium said:

What are your favorite parts of Doom 2?


The Chasm (map24) ... maybe not the best gameplay but boy was I impressed by that huge subterran cave base and the gloomy atmosphere.

Tenements and Refueling Base are also favorites. And I think I have never played such an impressive open city level like Downtown in any other FPS after (city levels in Half-Life 2 etc are all linear and boring compared to this).

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