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esselfortium

Doom II is actually pretty great :-)

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If somebody does prefer UD to Doom 2, Cacodemons certainly do. They were badass tough enemies in the second and third episode, strongest of the non-boss ones (if we don't consider non-boss Barons and Cybers as regular enemies), being able to rule over from Trooper to Spectre in terms and rank of toughness.

Then, Doom2 introduces quite alot monsters, from which there are only two which have lower HP than they do: Chaingunner and Revenant. Nonetheless, these two are still able to defeat them with giving no mercy or a simple attempt to resist against. Others (HK, Arachnotron, Mancubus, Archvile) just spread them onto bread like butter. So, even though they still look almost the most devilish and frightening enemies in the entire Doom "cast&crew", Cacodemons are so ranked off in the second Doom that they can be considered as no more than some flying clowns that sometimes float in front of you in order to block your view.

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Personally, my favorite part of Doom 2 was that it balanced everything just right.

My first time playing through the entire Doom 2 game, I sat down and played for three days straight. I didn't mess around with the first three difficulties: I went straight for UV.

I was 6 years old at the time, so it was a little more difficult to beat for me, accounting for the three straight days it took me to beat the game (I can do it now in a matter of a few hours, and that's if I'm lazy about it).

My first play through, I was so pleased with the fact that there was just enough ammo to account for just enough monsters on just the right design of maps. The consistency of challenge VS. entertainment through all 30 of the levels, plus the two secret levels, lived up to and went beyond my expectations that came from my playing the first Doom game. The traps weren't too intense or too measly, there was sensitive use of ammo and health, and I wasn't overwhelmed with too many monsters, or bored with too few.

To this day, it's difficult for me to find user-made WADs that represent this delicate balance. One of two things are the most common to happen:

1) I'm able to cruise through the mapper's levels with little to no effort. This is contributed to by overwhelming amounts of ammo (sometimes I actually try to find ways to EXPEL ammo faster, to try and make it more difficult), health, shoddy placement of a BFG three maps in, or a combination of any of the three.

2) It's damn near impossible to beat the maps because the creator went way too far on trying to make the WAD a "challenge". My gaming nightmares come to life as I constantly find myself stuck with nothing but my fists and a chainsaw, I'm constantly low on health or dead, and the monster count is way too high to deal with on my limited supply of offensive power.

So, my favorite part of Doom 2? It captures a good challenge, but makes it fun at the same time. Balance is my best friend in any game.

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I loved MAP28... (Spirit World) It has an epic name and is great Hell level. I still remeber when I first time played it, scared the crap outta me many times.

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Conclusion:
Doom 1 sucks
Ultimate Doom sucks
Doom 2 sucks
TNT Evilution sucks
Plutonia Experiment sucks
All console specific Doom sucks

I win, you lose, derp.

Ok, how about :
Grab your ass out of the chair or wherever you're sitting.
Stop bitching game X is better than Y. People's (and troll's) tastes are like ass, everyone owns one, in different sizes and forms.
Take a life. If not, do something that will be useful to you (no games, at least for a while), other than melting thy brain 24 hours per day with non-sense games and being a parasite to your parents (if you are still living with them) or wife.
Make some exercises and keep trombosis very far away.
SHUTDOWN THIS SHIT (PC, notebook, laptop, netbook, iphone, blackberry, ipad, whatever).

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Hand X said:

I win, you lose, derp.

Certainly not, until I would die!
For instance, I have an engangement and quite alot work for a living, despite being not even 19. You know, why?

Because if tho' Doomers weren't multifunctional, they would die and this forum wouldn't work!

Get it?

End of OFF - at least for me.

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Cell, too bad you, probably, didn't noticed that I was being sarcastic in the first part, sir. As you may see when I said "People's (and troll's) tastes are like ass, everyone owns one, in different sizes and forms". If you got to balance your life, congratulations, just ignore the rest of the shit I said. But most mortals here take games too seriously, which is not good to the poor mortal that suffer this nor to any community.

NiuHaka, when I read the sentence again, I just lol'd. 'Go have some life' might be more suitable. I derped there.

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Hand X said:

NiuHaka, when I read the sentence again, I just lol'd. 'Go have some life' might be more suitable. I derped there.

Or as we say here- Get a life.

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So, it was just an acting over how trolls can behave?

Deh, I should learn nothing is exactly what it seems to be!

At least, I've given good example of Horatio's Aura Mediocritas.

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Hand X said:

Conclusion:
Doom 1 sucks
Ultimate Doom sucks
Doom 2 sucks
TNT Evilution sucks
Plutonia Experiment sucks
All console specific Doom sucks

I win, you lose, derp.

Ok, how about :
Grab your ass out of the chair or wherever you're sitting.
Stop bitching game X is better than Y. People's (and troll's) tastes are like ass, everyone owns one, in different sizes and forms.
Take a life. If not, do something that will be useful to you (no games, at least for a while), other than melting thy brain 24 hours per day with non-sense games and being a parasite to your parents (if you are still living with them) or wife.
Make some exercises and [url= trombosis very far away[/url].
SHUTDOWN THIS SHIT (PC, notebook, laptop, netbook, iphone, blackberry, ipad, whatever).


..Dad?

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phobosdeimos1 said:

..Dad?

Lol, that was genius. :)


I think the fact that we can still have heated debates here is a great thing. It shows that we're still passionate about a 16 year old game, and that we care enough to have an opinion. The flame of DooM burns on...

On the other hands I seriously need to get a life. :P

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DeathevokatioN said:

I think the fact that we can still have heated debates here is a great thing. It shows that we're still passionate about a 16 year old game, and that we care enough to have an opinion.


Also, on many other forums, debates quickly turn into "LOL U FAG B/C U TNK COD5 BTR THN COD6 !!!!!!!!1111111ONEONEONEONEELEVELENELEVEN ELEVELNONEONEONE111111!!!!!!"

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Hand X said:

Conclusion:
Doom 1 sucks
Ultimate Doom sucks
Doom 2 sucks
TNT Evilution sucks
Plutonia Experiment sucks
All console specific Doom sucks

I win, you lose, derp.

Ok, how about :
Grab your ass out of the chair or wherever you're sitting.
Stop bitching game X is better than Y. People's (and troll's) tastes are like ass, everyone owns one, in different sizes and forms.
Take a life. If not, do something that will be useful to you (no games, at least for a while), other than melting thy brain 24 hours per day with non-sense games and being a parasite to your parents (if you are still living with them) or wife.
Make some exercises and keep trombosis very far away.
SHUTDOWN THIS SHIT (PC, notebook, laptop, netbook, iphone, blackberry, ipad, whatever).


You wouldn't happen to be that troll who attacked 13 of my videos of Youtube, are you? X)

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Funny, considering I just got home from work and am just checking the forums before I go out with some buddies for dinner and brewskies.

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DuckReconMajor said:

Kid died happy. I'm jealous.


Well he didn't actually die while playing, he died while picking up a pack of gum he dropped while looking for a job, apparently.

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I'myourtarget said:

he died while picking up a pack of gum he dropped while looking for a job

lol'd

Never had an issue with Doom 2. But I hate Mt. Erebus.

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i really liked doom2 personally, not as well designed as doom1 but i did like the fact that it was more challenging. Also it had sum good stuff like the double barrel (great for deathmatch). The first few levels were a little lame and the soundtrack wasn't as good but still had sum good songs all the same, but overall i thought it was a great follow up to doom1.

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hex11 said:
When they designed Doom II, they should have updated the engine to reflect the highly-vertical maps they were designing, by either fixing the autoaim code, or maybe adding an Up/Down Look feature like Raven did with Heretic.

That could have been a possibility. They decided against it and I'm really glad they stuck to a unified game and not to different games with the same "story" or else hacked the engine, where features meant for the second installment would have "revisioned" the first. The problems you mention are more of an issue for people who don't play the game much, of course, and more so for people already spoiled by true 3D. Once you play it more, these quirks become something handled intuitively and become essential aspects of DOOM's gameplay. As much as DOOM II may have enhanced some 2.5D peculiarities by not being so conservative in design, they were present in DOOM as well, so the argument becomes rather diluted. For example, autoaim allows a player to kill the E2M8 cyberdemon without any danger by shooting rockets or whatever over the central pillar while the cyb hits the pillar.

Most importantly, DOOM II doesn't have the issue some PWADs display where you tend to get stuck with monsters below because it generally combines high ledges or areas with enough space to move around the monsters or gives you other directions by which to back off.

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Doom II has grown on me somewhat since I started Dooming. I think as I get better at the game I start to appreciate the gameplay in Doom II more and more, which is in general a lot more varied and fast-paced than the more steady (though still very fun) gameplay of Doom. I still don't particularly like the look of many Doom II levels, which in many cases (MAP12 and MAP16 especially) have too many fugly barren brown blocks and irregular things in broad flat areas (E3M6 suffers from the same thing), as well as of course the nonsensical or misaligned texturing, but somehow these deficiencies don't ever seem to affect my ability to enjoy the game that much.

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myk said:

For example, autoaim allows a player to kill the E2M8 cyberdemon without any danger by shooting rockets or whatever over the central pillar while the cyb hits the pillar.


That's a pretty lame fight if you do that. I'd rather take my chances out in the open. It might be different if it was the cyber and a legion of his little friends, but he's alone except for a few lost souls...

You can exploit some of these engine behaviors, but I just don't care for this particular one. Monster infighting is a lot more interesting though.

And despite these flaws (autoaim, monsters blocking/melee on vertical cliff), Doom is still one of my favorite games. In fact, it's probably the one I played the most over the years. Man never made anything perfect...

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I'll always prefer the original dooms maps over doom2's, there was just so much more variety to them while a lot of doom2's maps just felt bland (Especially in the second half)
The gameplay additions were great though and much needed to keep the game more interesting.

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Doom II doesn't suck. It's just the levels in Thy Flesh Consumed, Final Doom and a significant number of megawads out there are better than it.

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vinnie245 said:

I'll always prefer the original dooms maps over doom2's, there was just so much more variety to them while a lot of doom2's maps just felt bland (Especially in the second half)


I actually think a major problem in Doom 2 is that the maps vary too much in theme.

For example whats MAP26, a mine level, doing in the middle of the "hell" levels?

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Processingcontrol said:

For example whats MAP26, a mine level, doing in the middle of the "hell" levels?


I think it's implied the hell portal from map20 is growing, or pulling bits of earth into it. It would explain the techy elements in map24 and 26. Although, maybe it's where the demons mine the metals for their robotic parts :P

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Processingcontrol said:

For example whats MAP26, a mine level, doing in the middle of the "hell" levels?


The mine lived a sinful life... which might be why it was abandoned.

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Just posting to say that I've been playing Doom for 17 years and over the past couple months have been playing many of the IWAD maps randomly. I've located a secret area (a relatively obvious one in MAP19: Citadel too) and revealed a room I have never ever seen before in my entire life. I've played Doom 2 on coop and have seen screenshots of all sorts of places in Doom but I've been playing Doom since I was three years old and I'm still finding places in my favorite game I've never explored yet.

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