High/Low 5 sky trouble

[Chris Hansen]

Hi guys.

I need a little help and I know you are the right guys for the job! It's been awhile since I last made a Doom level, so I run into trouble easy ;)

I have decided to finally finish High/Low 5 and thereby the series. One of my philosophies for the series was to not use new textures. And this is where I have run into trouble. Because I want to use a Quake 2 sky which I think fits the theme and look of the level better than the burning city sky from Doom II which I was initially going to use. So, I would like your opinion, pretty straight forward: Which one is best and is it okay to break my own rules? I am really torn here otherwise I wouldn't ask this question :)





11th aug.

[Use]

I prefer Doom2's original sky, but I'm fairly alone on that front.

[Khorus]

Use3D said:

I prefer Doom2's original sky

Yes.

but I'm fairly alone on that front.

LIER!

[Gez]

I'm not really convinced by that Quake sky. What are those dark vertical lines supposed to be?

[Death Egg]

Gonna be honest, Doom II sky fits much better than the Quake II one.

[PRIMEVAL]

The Orange of the Quake2 sky fits better but the Doom 2 sky looks better... I'm caught between the two.

[Vermil]

Gez said:

What are those dark vertical lines supposed to be?

Presumably something like an antenna.

That Quake2 sky didn't come out well.

An orange sky nearly always looks good with the original Doom artwork as there aren't any orange textures for it to clash with. However lot's of mods use the Ultimate Doom sky (I'm guilty of using it) to the point that seeing an orange sky may be monotonous.

[Chris Hansen]

Thank you for the speedy replies, I really appreciate it. And they are all good points, especially the one about an orange sky and the orange ult. Doom sky. Orange just seems to go so well with all those brown and green textures. So far, there is little doubt: I will follow the points made so far and probably end up using the original Doom II sky. But we have lots of time before release, so comments are still more than welcome :)

[esselfortium]

To be honest I think I prefer the orange sky, but your map looks great either way.

[NiuHaka]

I like the orange sky because I like the color with the textures you are using but I would recommend using the Doom E4 orange sky instead... maybe.

[Vordakk]

CHRIS!!! I thought you'd fallen off the planet. Great to hear that you're still mapping!

As for the two skies, I never liked DOOM2 skies except for the last one in levels 21-30. But the Quake 2 sky doesn't quite work here either. My two cents is that you should search for a third option. There are some pretty decent F_SKY replacements in /idgames that I've browsed through before, and maybe one of those would work.

Good luck and let me know if you need a playtester.

[fullmetalvaran33]

I really think the orange sky adds a darker, more intense, and grittier atmosphere to the map. The Doom II one strips that away and kind makes it more...generic, I think. It's ok to break a little rule here. I mean, it's a sky box, not a whole texture set overhaul.

[Chris Hansen]

esselfortium said:

To be honest I think I prefer the orange sky, but your map looks great either way.

Thank you!

Vordakk said:

CHRIS!!! I thought you'd fallen off the planet. Great to hear that you're still mapping!

Yeah, almost thought so myself! But I managed to rocket jump back the last second before the abyss swallowed me. :)

fullmetalvaran33 said:

I really think the orange sky adds a darker, more intense, and grittier atmosphere to the map. The Doom II one strips that away and kind makes it more...generic, I think. It's ok to break a little rule here. I mean, it's a sky box, not a whole texture set overhaul.

You aren't making this easy for me. It really is more intense and gritty. I have a feeling this will be a last minute decision after many shifts between various skies...

[pcorf]

The red Plutonia sky (from map12-20) may also work.

[Tango]

or an orangified version of said plutonia sky?

[esselfortium]

How about an orangified version of Doom2's city sky?

[Gez]

Tango said:

or an orangified version of said plutonia sky?

There aren't as many orange shades as there are red shades in the Doom palette, so it'll lose some of its quality.

For whoever wants to try them, some recolored skies:
Blue:

Green:

Red:

Orange, in four parts:

[_bruce_]

Use3D said:

I prefer Doom2's original sky, but I'm fairly alone on that front.

Doom2's x 1000.

[Vordakk]

Gez said:

For whoever wants to try them, some recolored skies:

Hey Gez, did you do these? I was thinking of maybe using one in a wad that I'm doing, and I want to make sure I credit the right person if I end up using it.

[Gez]

Yup. About one minute's work with SLADE 3 for the whole lot of them. :)

[Dutch Doomer]

The original sky looks better imo, or use some other sky texture from one of the original doom games.

[Vordakk]

Gez said:

Yup. About one minute's work with SLADE 3 for the whole lot of them. :)

Fantastic. I'll credit you as Gez unless you say otherwise. I really need to learn how to use SLADE3 better.

[aldiboronti]

Just to say, Chris, that your previous High/Low episodes are among my favorite Doom maps, for inventiveness and playability they take a lot of beating. I am so looking forward to this one. Great to see you back!

As for the sky I'd say you should stick to the Doom 2 one, I don't think the Quake sky fits well with Doom.

[Chris Hansen]

aldiboronti said:

Just to say, Chris, that your previous High/Low episodes are among my favorite Doom maps, for inventiveness and playability they take a lot of beating. I am so looking forward to this one. Great to see you back!

Thank you very much, very kind of you.

As you can see in the first post, I have tried to recolor the original sky to a much more orange look. Not sure I like it though, could probably be better... As Gez said, it's pretty straight forward in Slade, but as it is with all things in life, getting good at it is another thing entirely :)

[Lüt]

Tough call. Each has its pros and cons.

I think the Doom2 sky is too bright in comparison to the map itself, and the contrast between the bright white clouds and the saturation of the other textures makes for too harsh of a clash - the Quake2 sky is much more balanced in this regard.

Alternatively, for such an incredibly orange sky, I would expect the level to reflect that in some way - yet there's no orange hue or tint anywhere in the map, and that makes it look disconnected from the Quake2 sky.

(And yes I realize not every E4 map has an orange/brown tint outside, but I think Espi's SID set a standard when it came to outdoor integration of alternately-colored skies.)

Either way, I suspect most people wouldn't question the presence of a Doom2 sky in a Doom2 map, whereas adding a new sky would draw a more critical eye and therefore require the replacement sky to be very well tuned to the map.

[Gez]

Yeah, I haven't tried to recolor the burned city sky. It's very easy and fast to recolor something that's mostly monochromatic, or if there are only one, maybe two color ranges you want to change.

But the city sky? There's a lot of different ranges in the smoke and sky, and some of these colors are also used in the buildings in parts that shouldn't be recolored. So it's a whole other kettle of fish.

[Death Egg]

Wow, that new sky really hits the spot. The original city was good but did clash a little, but now with the orange it looks perfect.

[Chris Hansen]

Lüt said:

Tough call. Each has its pros and cons.

I think the Doom2 sky is too bright in comparison to the map itself, and the contrast between the bright white clouds and the saturation of the other textures makes for too harsh of a clash - the Quake2 sky is much more balanced in this regard.

Alternatively, for such an incredibly orange sky, I would expect the level to reflect that in some way - yet there's no orange hue or tint anywhere in the map, and that makes it look disconnected from the Quake2 sky.

(And yes I realize not every E4 map has an orange/brown tint outside, but I think Espi's SID set a standard when it came to outdoor integration of alternately-colored skies.)

Either way, I suspect most people wouldn't question the presence of a Doom2 sky in a Doom2 map, whereas adding a new sky would draw a more critical eye and therefore require the replacement sky to be very well tuned to the map.

As always, your input is very wise and useful, thanks. Your last point in particular is very interesting, didn't really think of that.