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GoatLord

Should Doom 4 be "appropriately" futuristic?

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Part of the charm of the old Doom games is the use of archaic aesthetics, such as the mostly contemporary (as opposed to futuristic) weapons, giant computer displays, bulky armor, and absolutely no use or even reference to, nanotechnology. Doom 3 was similar, with its ridiculous assumption that people more than one hundred years from now will still be using PDA's, email, slow firing, weak weapons, and cursor-based computers.

Should Doom 4 be like every other sci-fi shooter and ignore the painfully obvious (and very cool) directions that weapons, computing and space exploration are going? Or would it take too much away from the series to go for ACTUAL science fiction gimmicks?

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It should be set in the Roaring 20s.

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Science Fiction is always hit and miss, so I don't see a problem with low-techy stuff if it fits the general look and feel of the game.

Think about it, in the 1950s people were convinced we would colonise the whole solar system today and have flying cars...

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Taking it too far would ruin it maybe? ...At least for the human tech. I really like the Doom 3 style... It feels futuristic, but at the same time you can relate to the technology because its not too distant & far away from what we have today.

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Actually, what bugged me about Doom 3's use of technology is that it's already outdated. By the time the game was released in 2003, we had already been working on more advanced computer interfaces than what was featured in the game, especially in regard to PDA's. I would assume that in 2145, everyone would walk around in one-piece uniforms that were sheet thin and nearly weightless, with advanced communication and armor features, as well as augmented body parts, weapons with "smart" bullets containing GPS and identification components, and humanoid robots (and human clones) roaming about. I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of realism and forward thinking aesthetics, because I personally think the Doom spirit can be kept intact, even with such ultra-futuristic ideas.

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Yeah, I guess you are right. Does people even use PDA`s today? What I was thinking about was the experimental weapon tech & the portal research which tied in to the main story.

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The iPhone is a PDA. It fits the definition perfectly, and has even more functionality besides. Any Smartphone fits the bill, pretty much. (It's where smartphones came from.)

Doom 3's interfaces were less about being AWESOMELY FUTURISTIC and more about being actually very nice to use ingame. It gives so many more options than PUSH BUTTON TO DO A THING. The GUI system is the single greatest thing to come out of idtech 4, no question. I'm looking forward to seeing it in idtech 5. I reckon it would be a massive mistake to leave it out.

On topic, I actually don't care which way they go with it, as long as it makes sense in the setting and doesnt look silly.

Bonus points for roaring 20s, though, that was great.

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The interactive GUI`s were awsome. Hope they do more stuff this time around. I think Rage has them too, so they will probably be in D4.

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I really don't think Doom 4 should have nearly as much of an emphasis on goofy, overly complicated technology and machines as Doom 3 did. Doom II and Doom honestly didn't show off much architecture that resembled a computers or machinery. In fact I don't think players would have had any idea that they were in an advanced space base in Doom if they weren't told.

Personally, I'm more partial to the brick/wood/rope/rust type designs found particularly in Doom II than the sleek, steel corridors of Doom 3.

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Since the game isn't 1994 with demons and a handful of tech textures, yes, Doom 4 should be "appropriately" futuristic... to an extent. I mean, the one-piece uniforms and "smart" bullets and augmentations and such bullshit can be left for cyberpunk guff, but I would certainly like the future to look like... the future. I don't think it would take away from Doom any more than Doom 3 not being a Doom 2 clone did. Which was nothing at all.

Of course, Call of Cthulhu: DCoTE meets demonic invasion does sound kind of cool...

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I understand some of my ideas sounding too cyberpunkish, but if you have a wild enough imagination, you can actually make some of Doom's more ridiculous idioms work. For instance...

- Shotguns with wooden stocks? It may the future, but a faux-wooden finish is a popular retro aesthetic in 2145.
- Doomguy runs faster than most cheetahs? Augmented boots that reduce weight and increase velocity. Pretty useful in large bases.
- Skies and trees on a floating rock? Perhaps UAC is experimenting with terra-forming in extreme conditions.
- Player carries an absurd amount of ammunition? Not only will it be smaller and lighter in the future, but when a weapon runs low on ammunition, a signal could be sent to an ammo locker, where a small teleporter sends individual bullets, rockets, cells, etc., to the marine's weapon.
- Rockets and other powerful weapons don't damage walls? That's because every round and cell and rocket is networked to UAC; they are able to halt their velocities to zero when they reach borders, preventing dangerous explosions or air-sucking holes from forming.
- Transparent or "fake" walls? They're elaborate holograms that can be turned off by UAC personnel. Behind them are rooms and labs not open to the general public.

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Redeemer812 said:

Doom II and Doom honestly didn't show off much architecture that resembled a computers or machinery.

Doom 1 actually did a lot, see all the computer and tekwall textures. Doom 2 removed some of them.

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Doom 1 actually did a lot, see all the computer and tekwall textures.

Perhaps, but these things were meant to be just minor backdrops, and honestly they don't show up nearly as much as the tech in Doom 3. In Doom 3, it's like the main artistic highlight of the game is the pretty lights and the moving machines...

if you have a wild enough imagination, you can actually make some of Doom's more ridiculous idioms work.

Why even bother explaining these things away, though? There doesn't have to be a rational explanation for the Doomguy's ridiculous speed, the archaic weapon designs, the bulky computers, or the weird level designs. If you try to explain away these characteristics, you will destroy them. If you doubt that, just take a look at Doom 3, Dead Space, and Halo. Those games are the direct result of taking the Doom idea and forcing it to make sense.

And you can't use goofy ideas like "holographic walls" and "standard-issue hover boots" to retain the mechanics while rationalizing them as well, because they're just that... goofy. They kind of destroy the (very original and cool) idea that the Doomguy is just a Conan-esque killing machine who can fend off the forces of Hell with his bare fists.

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Redeemer812 said:

Why even bother explaining these things away, though? There doesn't have to be a rational explanation for the Doomguy's ridiculous speed, the archaic weapon designs, the bulky computers, or the weird level designs. If you try to explain away these characteristics, you will destroy them. If you doubt that, just take a look at Doom 3, Dead Space, and Halo. Those games are the direct result of taking the Doom idea and forcing it to make sense.


Dead Space is the best game out there after Doom, at least to me it is. It fits into the survival horror genre more than it does FPS, but on that token Doom 3 was leaning that way too. I guess that's why some people hated it, it wasn't just Doom with updated graphics. It evolved the concept. I liked it. I hope they keep going the same direction with D4

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Dead Space is the best game out there after Doom, at least to me it is.

Then we have a difference of opinion, and I can respect that. :-)

To me, Doom isn't about survival in a space station filled with demons. That's the premise behind the game, but really the gameplay doesn't reflect much of that. If you boil the game down to the essentials, you really just see a lot of Conan-esque demon-beating action across various random, hellish/brick/tech landscapes.

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Another futuristic FPS??? hmmm...

Doom 1 & 2 didn't feel futuristic. Doom 3 felt very futuristic.

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You could add time travel, but that would be wacky lol. I'd have to say futuristic definitely, most of the demons used newer technology mixed in with their bodies. If it's not futuristic it wouldn't be Doom, makes more fear when you don't know what to expect from the future. Much like Quake, how could you make Quake or Doom not futuristic they were built on it. The PDA lol, it did have pass codes, and security features that interacted with the base kinda, they could have had that stuff in a helmet or implant. Doom 4 will be a surprise, well I hope, with how game technology has increased so much since Doom 3 who knows what will be included they were creative and detailed with the computer interfaces, I found those amazing for the time. With how Doom 3 was a cold steel future I liked what they did with it, the feel in that game still is very different from most games I play, feels the most realistic for a future setting. Doom 1, 2, & Final did feel a bit futuristic but Doom64 was closer and did have the atmosphere in some levels. All in all I really think they should make it like Doom 3's settings again and add to it.

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Dark27 said:

how could you make Quake or Doom not futuristic they were built on it.

Quake 1 is not (very) futuristic.

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Doom, honestly, is also not very futuristic. If you try to count any futuristic elements in Doom that actually have a bearing on the way the game is played, you can really only name the plasma gun and BFG. And those two weapons are hardly critical to Doom's gameplay... while iconic, id could've ripped them out during development and nobody would've cared, just like we don't care that the game has no rifle or "Dark Claw" weapon.

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They showed cool touch interfaces in the movie Terminator 4 when John Connor was in the Skynet base. If you had more interactive touch interfaces and other things you could fiddle with in the game like switching lights on and off and/or messing with cranes to drop crates on monsters, that would be cool. The interactive consoles in Doom3 were very cool, but they need to expand on that. And make the ambient lighting in the maps a little brighter please!

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There was no ambient lighting in Doom 3. Every light source had to be placed manually and properly.

That's why it was so dark. Also because they decided to go with a heavy horror theme, and dark is scary right?

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... in a power outtage... wouldn't there be minimal lights? But yes everyone hates dark... yet no one adjusted the brightness or gamma. I did. Never had a problem with the darkness.

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When I first played Doom3 five years ago I set the gamma to the max. Explain to me how I still couldn't see anything.

Sorry buddy, but the *fact* that Doom3 was too dark is something everyone else has already admitted to, including id software. So who are you defending?

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I always prefered thinking about doom... in modern times.
I mean, the not so distant future, rather than 2145. I picture the earth (Where doom4 will most likely take place) being the same as it is now, with maybe a few new looks to it.

But not flying cars, weird holographic billboards, etc etc.

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The old Doom games were retro-futuristic, not only because of our ignorance at the time of developing technologies, but because it was a primitive psuedo-3D game, so realistic futuristic elements weren't all that necessary. Doom 4 will likely have some of the best graphics in the business, so the attention to detail will force id to think big. But then again, most video games don't do a lot of research when it comes to futuristic innovations. Even the Dead Space games use computer technology very close to what we have today. But thinking too big might result in a game that has little to do with Doom.

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I would like to have a more 'down-to-earth' future, no exotic crap like nanobots, pew pew lasers, fancy battle armour covered in LEDs. The BFG and plasma rifle, alongside teleporters should be there, but presented as roughly constructed prototypes.

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Uhm...the things you're claiming should be omitted ARE down to Earth, because it's if one uses "down to Earth" logic, that is exactly what you would expect to find in a futuristic setting.

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GoatLord said:

Actually, what bugged me about Doom 3's use of technology is that it's already outdated. By the time the game was released in 2003, we had already been working on more advanced computer interfaces than what was featured in the game, especially in regard to PDA's. I would assume that in 2145, everyone would walk around in one-piece uniforms that were sheet thin and nearly weightless, with advanced communication and armor features, as well as augmented body parts, weapons with "smart" bullets containing GPS and identification components, and humanoid robots (and human clones) roaming about. I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of realism and forward thinking aesthetics, because I personally think the Doom spirit can be kept intact, even with such ultra-futuristic ideas.


I kinda laughed when I read this. Haven't you seen today's economical issues? Do you know how long this is possibly going to persist? Hell, some things are actually downgrading and getting expensive. The only reason I find a Doom3's current setting believable is..

Well, UAC seems like it's bureaucratic enough to be held back by these problems. Also, why do you think hell overran them so fast? (That's like saying, what makes this game Doom? But oh yeah, it is..)Perhaps it's dated weaponry and lack of augmentations, they still show those weapons off as if they where the latest and greatest. It's like a used car dealership trying to sell off a sports car they picked up and modified from someone else. Point is, UAC has wasted a lot of money to venture into space, dig out mars, and even construct bases there. Not even the least bit economical. They are likely not going to have enough money left to afford expensive augmentations for their PMCs and base personnel with fancier armors. And just because they can operate outside of moral and legal obligations doesn't mean they are not restricted by an economics system. They still worry about getting things done correctly and securely meaning they still have their own budget to worry about.

In this case. I hope I'm wrong about economical problems persisting this far into the future... That is a nightmare difficulty on life.

With all that said, I'm very sure all those things you said you would expect would make a pretty cool game combined with the Doom scene.

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Redeemer812 said:

When I first played Doom3 five years ago I set the gamma to the max. Explain to me how I still couldn't see anything.

Sorry buddy, but the *fact* that Doom3 was too dark is something everyone else has already admitted to, including id software. So who are you defending?


I explain that on a hardware problem. I didn't touch gamma or brightness and I could see fine, if I turn either of them up the game is too bright. You either need new eyes or a new monitor. This has been well-established. The only reason Id acknowledged it is the same reason movie-makers change shit when they make a sequel. They don't think anything was wrong with the original, they're just responding to what fans whined about to make sure the next one sells.

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... maybe Doom 4 should just feature a variety of things. Hell, space, earth, future, phobos, diemos, mars. Variety is the spice of life.

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