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Speculation Central - Post your retarded theories about Doom 4 here!

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There might be stupid cinematics and section where you scream "Will you let me finally play?". I have seen what they did with Wolfenstein the new order, half an hour in that plane and later do this do that.

If they don't do this mistake, the level design will be linear or not interesting enough. Seriously, everyone argues that they don't do FPS like in the past, they argue about slow movement, regen health, reloading/scopes, and I do agree some of the stuff make FPS not so much fun but those are tropes they can easily avoid in the new Doom. What bothers me though is that we have a long time since we experienced some really interesting non-linear level designs. New wannabe-retro FPS, like Bulletstorm, Hard Reset or Shadow Warriors brag about being oldschool but their level design is so linear or not interesting (don't know about Shadow Warrior though, didn't played it yet). ROTT remake was a bit more interesting (because of many secrets) even if bland (but original ROTT had a bland blocky design anyway). They will never make levels as interesting as episode one of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D. They will never surprise us with Deus Ex level and game design (another new favorite oldie I started to play).

I don't know if this preference of linearity is because of the younger generation or technical reasons or both? I bet on Doom 4 screwing on this.

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raymoohawk said:

i actually really liked the art style and designs in doom 3 even if the game itself doesnt hold up now


My main issue was that I didn't feel that immediate sense of threat from most of the enemies like I still do with the original Dooms. And it's not like they're particularly horrific looking. There's just something about their design and behavior that makes you tense when firefights get busy. The game, I think, actually holds up fairly well, it's just rife with balance issues and an overly consistent look.

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Optimus said:

There might be stupid cinematics and section where you scream "Will you let me finally play?". I have seen what they did with Wolfenstein the new order, half an hour in that plane and later do this do that.

If they don't do this mistake, the level design will be linear or not interesting enough. Seriously, everyone argues that they don't do FPS like in the past, they argue about slow movement, regen health, reloading/scopes, and I do agree some of the stuff make FPS not so much fun but those are tropes they can easily avoid in the new Doom. What bothers me though is that we have a long time since we experienced some really interesting non-linear level designs. New wannabe-retro FPS, like Bulletstorm, Hard Reset or Shadow Warriors brag about being oldschool but their level design is so linear or not interesting (don't know about Shadow Warrior though, didn't played it yet). ROTT remake was a bit more interesting (because of many secrets) even if bland (but original ROTT had a bland blocky design anyway). They will never make levels as interesting as episode one of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D. They will never surprise us with Deus Ex level and game design (another new favorite oldie I started to play).

I don't know if this preference of linearity is because of the younger generation or technical reasons or both? I bet on Doom 4 screwing on this.


As much as I loved The New Oder, I really have to agree. The game is so good that I keep wanting to come back to it but the problem is that you can't just press two buttons and be in the game like in Doom or Wolf3D, you have to go through these cutscenes that I've seen a million times or scripted events.

The game also had some old school style exploration but I keep getting this nagging feeling that it's not really enough. I expected the game to have whole sections that you might miss in your first playthrough. I think my favorite part was in the first level where you could either blow up the main gate, which alerted of lot of angry guards OR blow up the ammunitions stockpile for a secret alternative route that makes things much easier, that entire section of the level (and not only) was brilliant as were the secrets within it but it still felt like the game needed more and more complex stuff like that. The part in Eisenwald where you could pick that secret file that if you put in a cabinet opens a secret area was great too.

Unfortunately, as the game progressed you got less and less of that, with occasional resurges like the Gibraltar bridge level where you could scale a bunch of support beams to reach a couple of secrets, that was great! However, why couldn't they design a completely optional lane on the bridge that you have to reach in similar (but harder ways)? I find it odd how people say the levels are so huge, they feel kind of small to me.

I also think they missed an opportunity to make a city level, especially considering the way in which nazis and their crazy technology influenced culture and the lives of people. I kept hoping that we would be able to explore a semi open world level in a city that takes the best parts of Duke 3D and puts it in one level. A level with lots of optional and fully explorable buildings, many alternative paths through labyrinthine sewers that can lead to secret crypts or help your reach that closed gun shop through the toilet. Nazi night clubs, Nazi Atari 2600 games (that you can play!), nazi pinball machines, nazi pool tables, Nazi vending machines, nazi dogs patrolling the streets.

I kept getting the feeling that the game could have been and needed to be more and that we needed even more freedom than we got. Why couldn't we use the lasergun in more creative ways? Why can't I just skip the cutscenes and scripted events? I've already seen them 10 times.

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Optimus said:

I don't know if this preference of linearity is because of the younger generation or technical reasons or both? I bet on Doom 4 screwing on this.

It's definitely because of the younger generation, but, as a dooming 13 year-old, I would like to say that I hate all those kind of things.

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Predictions for gunplay:

*Secondary fire modes, switched via Z.

*You will be able to pick up another one of certain weapons, allowing you to dual wield them. Dual-wieldable weapons will include the SSG, Pistol and a carbine version of the MG-88 Enforcer.

*Upgrades will be implemented ala the New Order, allowing your weapons to go beyond their base functionality. For example, the pistol can mount a laser sight and silencer for long-range engagements at the cost of power.

*The Plasma Rifle will be able to switch between it's traditional stream of superheated death and a shotgun-like function.

*The Rocket Launcher will have laser-guided rounds, "dumb" incendiary rockets highly effective flesh, Tesla rounds optimized against cybernetic enemies, and a flechette submunition round.

*The Enforcer will receive a battle rifle variation, capable of either highly precise 3-round bursts or bring a underbarrel flechette gun to bear.

Movement predictions:

*Think Brink, but better than that POS. Doomguy will be able to pull off speed vaults, wall runs , jetboot-assisted jumps and grabbing onto objects on the wall to get up sheer obstacles.

*One can hijack vehicles of various types from the Former Humans, mostly to traverse the wide-open Mars segments.

Enemies:

*Former humans will be a LOT more prominent, with more variants stemming from both Doom 3 and stuff like KDIZD. They'll wield every weapon the player acquires, and serve as Hell's vanguard.

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It's possible that during QuakeCon DOOM4 was actually running on a modified id Tech 5, NOT id Tech 6. id has hired a number of rendering/engine programmers AFTER the event, including Tiago Sousa, Allen Bogue and Michael Bosley. Sousa has specifically mentioned that he's working on Tech 6 and has "rendering R&D" written in his profile. There were also alleged comments from id emplyees at QuakeCon suggesting the engine was about to be overhauled with a new lighting system and particle effects.

Obviously Tech 6 will be based on the Tech 5 foundation. But it seems like the 'real' Tech 6 has barely entered active development around the time of QuakeCon. My guess is that the engine powering the presentation was simply a slightly upgraded Tech 5 running on a new hardware, with new assets but not quite the new engine yet.

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Yep, but Tech 6 is still in a very active development. Just recently (literally a couple of days ago) id hired two more people to assist the core engine team: Axel Gneiting as a Senior Engine Programmer and Michael Kopietz as a Senior Graphics Architect. Both of them are ex Crytek devs, by the way. Either way I think the current version of the game looks significantly different than the one from QC. Hopefully in a good way.

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I think the bigest problem is texture streaming i instaled Evil within, Wolf TNO and Rage all on IDTECH 5 and all have the same problem texture streaming.

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Here's a retarded a theory in regards to parts of the plot;

The UAC opens a gateway to the so-called hell dimension, they study it for a few years and eventually discover some of the inhabitants. They than capture a few specimens and bring them back to the Mars research facility to get a better understanding. Than someone, presumably a Betruger like character gets the bright idea of "weaponizing" these captured demons by fusing them with the latest gadgets hence the "unholy union of flesh and metal" from the trailer. Ah but this was just a ploy on the part of the demons, the hordes of hell invade, strengthened even more by the cyborg demons and take over the base leaving Doomguy the only remaining survivor to fend of the demons.

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Clonehunter said:

ihopeithasheavymetalandbloodandgoreverywhereandisreallyfastwithhardcoremetaleverywhereandlotsfmonstersnadimpsanddemonsandallothercoolthingsnadmetalmetalmetalthisisreallyhrdtodowithoutspacesinfactmythumbsarehurtingbecausethey'renotbeingusedmetaldoomneedshardassmetalandsupernonlinearandbloodandgoreandothershit

Yes .

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In the most elaborate trolling scheme in all of gaming history, Doom as portrayed in the Teaser is the game which was scrapped by Bethesda. Cinematic Doom will debut at E3, the most interactive cinematic experience to date in which you press any key to progress to the next-gen cinematic. Hell and demons are a manifestation of the patriarchy and our story chronicles humanity's last bastion of hope. An elite squad of neo-liberal conservative communists.

In between firefights with their demonic foes our heroes casually banter about their sex lives and the appropriation of pop culture for ideological, financial and political gain. After they discover the power of love, they have a massive orgy with nextgen impse and the Icon of Sin explodes. The earth and all of humanity is instantly restored except for white people, because they're Cheetos and a million Hitlers.

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That's p. good SYS. And the good part about the ending is it leaves open a possibility for the sequel: Doom 2: Cool Ranch Edition which includes multiplayer mode and new DLC chainsaw weapon skin.

I hope they make a joke or two somewhere in Doom 4. Like a character asks,
"How many guns do you have on you?"
"Two."
"You're carrying two guns?"
"yeah"
"This is hell on earth and you're a two-gun carrying pussy, I guess you're the new guy"

Also there should be several catchphrases and one-liners from the Doom Comic. I won't settle for less.

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I bet Id won't make the level design loop onto itself like Dark Souls/Bloodborne's level design and i can guarantee 100% that they won't make the levels connect onto each other like Metroidvanias/Dark Souls/Bloodborne.

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Yeah I've been playing Wolf TNO and it's pretty cool at times but I'd still be pretty disappointed if DooM 4 turned out like it.

I can't really say I'm enjoying it nearly as much as I'd like.

The level design is still fairly corridor shootery and linear. The graphics are a strange mix of good and shitty. I made sure everything is on Ultra but there's this weird mix of amazing character detail and really shitty blurry environments with crappy flat looking textures. I was looking at some playing cards sitting on the table and they were part of the table texture itself rather than being separate objects. They looked all crappy and blurry. And the sky looks painted sometimes. If I look at CS:GO or pretty much any other game, none of them have this issue. The game looks consistently good all around.

In Wolf you still have these sets of objectives that you have to complete one after another with a few secrets branching off of the linear path. That's not really good level design IMO. It's still the same old linear design but you have to look for secrets thrown in. This is what pissed me off about the new ROTT game and Shadow Warrior. Sometimes I reach a point in the level where I can't go back and explore more because god forbid I mess up the scripted event that comes next, so I miss a secret because I don't know to go left or right. I always hate that in modern level design where I have to keep back tracking back and forth and avoid triggering anything important in case I can't go back to some other area. It kind of takes out the joy of exploring.

If you think about it, in DooM you are just thrown into a giant level. It's not a huge open world like GTA or Farcry or Assasins Creed or Skyrim which is good. You have a clear goal. Reach the end of the level. It's not full of boring side quests and other chores. Just some good ol exploring, puzzle solving, and shooting. I really hope DooM 4 is like that. Just pure gameplay, no boring cutscenes and scripted events every step of the way like single player campaigns do nowadays.

And it's not like they don't know how to make good levels. Just do the same thing you do for a multiplayer level with all the different paths and ways to enter an area and fill it with monsters and items and secrets. They just seem to think a single player campaign absolutely has to have all this plot when in the end the plot of a video game can never hope to be as good as a movie so the plot ends up sucking anyway. Minimal plot is fine. I enjoy half-life, for example. It has some cool story thrown in but is mostly gameplay. Battlefield is the other end of the extreme. All story, hardly any gameplay. Wolf TNO is a bit too far on the extreme of Battlefield IMO but not quite as bad.

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NoirSuede said:

I bet Id won't make the level design loop onto itself ... and i can guarantee 100% that they won't make the levels connect onto each other...


I shortened your quote because I wasn't familiar with the games you referenced. This is probably my biggest fear about neo-Doom. I already know it's going to be visually appropriate, that it's going to have good sound design and and lot of fast movement and visceral combat. But id will be doing their fanbase a disservice if they ignore truly non-linear layouts. There was utterly no mention of level design in the reveal, so we'll just have to wait and see. I would be kind of surprised if they were this intent on being old school, and ignored one of the biggest appeals about playing Doom.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they mess up on the level design. That seems to be something literally every other AAA dev messes up on.

I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about this though. Outside the DooM community I'm one of the only people ranting about crappy level design nowadays.

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DooM_RO said:

As much as I loved The New Oder, I really have to agree. The game is so good that I keep wanting to come back to it but the problem is that you can't just press two buttons and be in the game like in Doom or Wolf3D, you have to go through these cutscenes that I've seen a million times or scripted events.

The game also had some old school style exploration but I keep getting this nagging feeling that it's not really enough. I expected the game to have whole sections that you might miss in your first playthrough. I think my favorite part was in the first level where you could either blow up the main gate, which alerted of lot of angry guards OR blow up the ammunitions stockpile for a secret alternative route that makes things much easier, that entire section of the level (and not only) was brilliant as were the secrets within it but it still felt like the game needed more and more complex stuff like that. The part in Eisenwald where you could pick that secret file that if you put in a cabinet opens a secret area was great too.

Unfortunately, as the game progressed you got less and less of that, with occasional resurges like the Gibraltar bridge level where you could scale a bunch of support beams to reach a couple of secrets, that was great! However, why couldn't they design a completely optional lane on the bridge that you have to reach in similar (but harder ways)? I find it odd how people say the levels are so huge, they feel kind of small to me.

I also think they missed an opportunity to make a city level, especially considering the way in which nazis and their crazy technology influenced culture and the lives of people. I kept hoping that we would be able to explore a semi open world level in a city that takes the best parts of Duke 3D and puts it in one level. A level with lots of optional and fully explorable buildings, many alternative paths through labyrinthine sewers that can lead to secret crypts or help your reach that closed gun shop through the toilet. Nazi night clubs, Nazi Atari 2600 games (that you can play!), nazi pinball machines, nazi pool tables, Nazi vending machines, nazi dogs patrolling the streets.

I kept getting the feeling that the game could have been and needed to be more and that we needed even more freedom than we got. Why couldn't we use the lasergun in more creative ways? Why can't I just skip the cutscenes and scripted events? I've already seen them 10 times.

You forgot the fact that the game inexplicably takes away all of the guns you've found except for the lasergun in every chapter.

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