Quake or Doom: Which was better and why

[TwinBeast]

Quake definitely has crappy weapons. The only weapons that pack any kind of punch are Rocket Launcher and Lightning Gun... Super Nailgun is ok against monsters, but player vs player, it sucks because everyone else has RL or LG. And Grenade Launcher is in it's own tier where it either sucks big horseballs or rocks your world like the best thing ever.

I like the way shotguns look in Quake, maybe more than the ones in Doom. But good looks isn't enough.

Doom has better colors in the palette. There's some vivid colors in the Quake palette too, just they're not used anywhere, except in the player model colors. Complete lack of proper green is pretty bad. They should have used more grey too. Forcing the Doom palette into the Quake palette layout makes it a bit better.. but doesn't fix the same textures used about everywhere.

As a game Quake feels a fail compared to Doom. Though the crappy weapons make it more challenging, which is why I play through the game again sometimes (I like challenge).

Both games have enjoyable music. Quake also has the ambient sounds which is good if playing without music.


As an engine Quake is mostly a step forward, maybe some of the things in the engine were a bit step back. Like Doom can have those grate/fence textures, but Quake can't. Doom also has the spectre transparency effect, while Quake has no transparency effects (changing player model to eyeballs model just doesn't do it). HUD numbers are limited to 255 in Quake.. uhh.. Doom can display up to 999.

Quake crashes if there's more than 600 things/entities in the level, which is really easy to break. Quake becomes laggy if there's too many netpackets.. in a singleplayer game. I can understand this netpacket thing as a good way to test if the game works right in a multiplayer game.. but it could have been an option.

QuakeC is pretty good for changing the game and can do a whole lot more than Dehacked...

[Da Werecat]

Quake sucks because it's not Doom.

Doom sucks because it's not Quake.

This thread kinda sucked even when it was created. Who would want to resurrect it?

[nxGangrel]

For me, it's Quake. The reason being Quake had better combat; each enemy wasn't a carbon copy of each other that was slightly modified. And fighting an enemy was dynamic.

The weapons felt like they had more of a purpose.

The levels were more interesting and creative.

And personally Quake is game of choice when I want to unleash my anger on something. Doom is almost the opposite.

[nxGangrel]

Da Werecat said:

Who would want to resurrect it?

Well you did comment on it, so...

[Da Werecat]

So?

[Combinebobnt]

Doom because you aren't posting this on a quake forum are you

[snapshot]

Don't join a forum of a game you're not interested in .

[ExclusiveAlias [CBD]]

QUAKE

• Autoaim could be disabled completely, therefore you truely had to aim proficiently.
  
• Rocket Jumping vs "Rocket skipping"
  
• Bunnyhopping
  
• Quake enemies generally felt more interesting to fight
  
• Superior MAPS once you learn how to actually move via Bunnyhopping/Rocket Jumping
  
• Static Damage output vs the RNG idiocy you have to put with in DOOM
  
• Quad Damage
  
• Immediate weapon switch
  
• Grenades, Grenades, Grenades!!!
  

[scifista42]

IMO, Doom is the better one, because of:

-easier mapping
-more colorful palette
-more enemy types
-better "interplay" of different enemy types
-fun fights that can have many monsters while being reasonably challenging even for non-experts
-big open areas

On the other hand, Quake has a couple major pros:

-true 3D architecture
-enemies with unique behaviour + powerful on their own

I wish Doom had those as well, they would make it even more perfect. Monsters like the Ogre, Fiend, Zombie, even the Scrag, Knight and Enforcer, and I'd go as far to say that even the Dog and the Spawn (!), would find their proper place in Doom (custom) maps.

Quake's instant weapon changes and manual aiming are also good, though not essential for a game's greatness IMO. Same for jumping, swimming and rocket jumping.

[FireFish]

-> Quake ; Technologically superior

   - Actual 3D
   - Water
   - Imitated Lighting
   - Particles
   - Quake C
   - a bit of text tells the story...

-> Doom ; Proved a point

   - 2D sprites
   - restricted 3D / partial 3D / 2.5D.
   - sector based brigthness of textures
   - a bit of text tells the story...
   - shotguns that give great audio-visual feedback...

Doom is easy to map for because of its 2D map format which gives it that litle extra something... While quake is from another time and what they call 3D.

For me they both suffer from the exact same thing... no audio-visual story, nothing to suck you into the game next to the levels you see, the atmosphere, or the shooting and button pressing. Slowly but surely i cant get myself to play them because of that.

From a gameplay standpoint Quake had a lot more to offer than doom though.

[Yuki Senmatsu]

Older is better than modern for me so, DOOM it is.

[Dr radinki]

yellowmadness54 said:

quake rapes my eyes after an hour of playing. Levels got extremely hard or boring.

I prefer doom. I like quake, just not nearly as much.

True.
The graphics, advanced for its day, are very hard to look at.

Jodwin said:

Quake: Boring weapons, meh graphics, boring and/or annoying enemies (fiends, zombies), slower gameplay than Doom.

Yeah, Quake was a doo-doo.

Also true, mostly, but Quake is a good game. I still play it.

[FireFish]

Dr radinki said:

True.
The graphics, advanced for its day, are very hard to look at.

Not true for me.

the graphics never bothered me. Doom on Dos while using the official and original engine... is a mess made out of brightly colored blocks and contrasting colors while quake seemed more defined and clear.

[Megamur]

Doom's pros:

-Better color variety than Quake. Quake is predominantly brown, with some yellow and red splashed here and there. Doom offers you brown, red, gray, green and blue in the first room of E1M1 alone.

-Better theme variety than Quake. Doom had techbases, Hell-infested techbases, and Hell itself. Quake was mostly just an endless series of dungeons.

-Better weapons than Quake. Super shotgun and super nailgun basically make their non-super forms obsolete, ultimately reducing the weapon types to just six. Lightning gun is a poor replacement for a BFG. No good melee weapons in Quake, either.

-Better-looking actors and objects. I guess not really being able to tell what you're looking at added to the warped creepiness of the Quake bestiary, but it doesn't change the fact that it's...hard to tell what you're looking at.

-More memorable soundtrack.

-Better sound effects. Gib a monster in Doom and it sounds like a crunchy, bloody, gooey mess. Gib a monster in Quake and I can't even tell what I'm hearing. Doom's weapon effects generally have more impact, too, and DoomGuy's grunts and screams aren't nearly as utterly bizarre and somewhat comical as QuakeGuy's.

-Faster-paced gameplay. Not that Quake is slow, but Doom is quicker.

-Some items better than Quake's. Quake's Pentagram of Protection doesn't protect your armor, which is totally stupid, but Doom's invulnerability sphere fully protects you from everything except telefrags. Soul spheres and megaspheres are way better than megahealth, the effect of which often disappeared before you actually needed it. Armor and health bonuses are a nice way to keep your power levels boosted.

-Easier to mod and with a more prolific modding community, and the wide variety of source ports offers compatibility with a greater range of platforms.


Quake's pros:

-Better color blending than Doom. While the variety of colors might be lower, the colors that are available have much more levels of shading than in Doom, which allowed for smoother lighting.

-Texture sets are more complementary than Doom's. Doom's textures were often a mishmash that didn't go together very well, so you ended up with weird stuff like UAC doors in Hell. Quake's texture set drew a clear distinction between the Earth and extradimensional levels, and just generally had a more unified style than Doom's.

-Creepier atmosphere and music. I know a lot of people were upset when Quake came out that Reznor's score wasn't as rocking as hoped, but it makes the game incredibly moody and really sells you on the horrific, otherworldly atmosphere.

-Monsters are generally more threatening. Aside from a cyberdemon or maybe a well-placed arch-vile, nothing in Doom puts me on edge as much as a fiend or a spawn coming at my face out of nowhere, and the ogre is quite versatile for basically being a standard foot soldier.

-Some items better than Doom's. Ring of Shadows was much more useful than Doom's blur sphere, which was a power-down more often than not. Quad Damage was generally more handy than the berserk pack, and felt extremely satisfying to use. Red armor is pretty rad.

-True 3D, free-aiming, swimming, jumping and scripting right out of the box. Doom took a while to get these features, and is still kind of working on the "true 3D" thing.


In the end, the better mod support, a better weapon set, and more varied visual themes keep me coming back to Doom more often, but Quake is a nice alternative when I want something Doom-flavored that's a bit moodier and slightly more challenging.

[Da Werecat]

Quake has 14 color ranges (not counting fullbrights), 16 colors each. Doom seemingly has more ranges, but the palette is just very disorganized. Some of the ranges have 32 colors, but some are very small. Many lack darker tones, which makes them fade badly.

I've made some weapon models for Quake, and the fact that it has only 16 pure greys was problematic. But it has a lot of similar ranges that kinda reinforce each other.

[Avoozl]

John Romero in one of his interviews mentioned how with Quake that the main focus was on the best technology but not necessarily the best game design like they had done before.

I think it was mentioned somewhere in this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v_0HD7iOz4

[Buckshot]

Obviously DOOM was the better game, from start to finish in a development stand point and from a commercial standpoint. sure, it wasn't a pure 3D engine, but no way possible any tech at the time would have been capable of doing what DOOM needed to do without using sprites and a completely 3D polygonal based map. Even today, to have that much going on at those speed takes a hell of a machine to pull it off. It was necessary and fit the game style perfectly.

Quake had the cool pure 3D tech and poly based models, but it was still very early for systems and accelerators to handle such things. It was all wild west, and in a way, to many of us, looked like a step back very early on. The only improvement it really offered was in multiplay, and it was apparent they had no clear cut idea on what they wanted as far as game design, story, and characters goes... it was a mashup of several ideas that they quickly stitched some story together at the 11th hour and sent out to sea, hoping for the best. Fortunately, (and I have no idea how) critics loved it, though I'm almost certain it was for the multiplay aspect... as the singleplay was pretty lacking and made little to no sense (imo).

Everything I've ever read from the dev guys and id's history state how ashamed they were of how Quake development went, and they just wanted it done and gone.

[Avoozl]

And yet Quake was the more popular game of its time, even later 2.5D games such as Blood which seemed to be much more fun than Quake wasn't even any where near as popular since people only started to care about true 3D games after Quake happened.

[Da Werecat]

True 3D isn't only about graphics. Level design possibilities is an even more important perk of 3D everything. And yes, character models are necessary to explore these possibilities, because sprites look too stupid from above and below.

For a serious commercial game, anyway.

[Buckshot]

Avoozl said:

And yet Quake was the more popular game of its time, even later 2.5D games such as Blood which seemed to be much more fun than Quake wasn't even any where near as popular since people only started to care about true 3D games after Quake happened.

Hmmmmmmm. That's debatable. And a debate I'd be interested in seeing factual analytics for (not saying that you're incorrect, rather I've never seen sales figures or average amount of players side-by-side).

I know Quake was popular, sure... but mainly to the multiplay crowd. I think the single play campaign was largely forgettable to most. I've played Quake since day 1, yet I can't remember a damn baddie's name (other than that silly tree, shrub nigarath I think it was) and that's about all I can remember other than the player was Ranger and he had a rocket launcher and a nailgun.

HOWEVER, I can remember every DOOM enemy, map name, song title, item name, etc in a similar respect.

I also remember everything being a DOOM-clone from there foreward, how every store I went to had bazillion copies of shareware DOOM, how many corporate/university networks it brought down, how many of my friends played it until their eyes bled, how many friends begged me for pirated copies of the registered version, etc. It was on the front of every magazine for as many years until Quake's release, had huge 1000-page FAQ's designed over it, mod tools and maps out the ass (with commercial 3rd party map collections released) and from what I can remember, Quake had no where near that level of popularity.... It was popular, yes... but it didn't light the world on fire like DOOM did.

[Avoozl]

I worded that poorly, I didn't mean to say Quake was more popular than Doom was for its own time.

[SavageCorona]

Da Werecat said:

Quake sucks because it's not Doom.

Doom sucks because it's not Quake.

This thread kinda sucked even when it was created. Who would want to resurrect it?

If only you could combine the two to create the ultimate form

[Buckshot]

SavageCorona said:

If only you could combine the two to create the ultimate form

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_64

[SavageCorona]

Oh, that was easy

[optimusjamie]

Honestly, I love Quake for its Lovecraftian fantasy/horror aesthetic (sorta like Dark Souls with mid-90s tech), but Doom wins out here.

[drygnfyre]

I think time has shown Doom to be the better game. It's just held up much better. People still make Doom WADs and talk about Doom on a regular basis. I haven't seen nearly that amount of support and legacy for Quake.

[The Doommer]

geo said:

But what about Quake vs Doom 1 or 2? In your opinions how do the two games stack up?

Just wondering and yes I know this is a Doom forum.

Doom , because of it's perfect gameplay , textures & monsters...
Quake had only a jumping as it's new feature...(which i saw in some of doom walkthroghts too)

geo said:

I've been wondering if more technology makes games worse.

Of course not ! Compare Call of Duty Black Ops III via Call of Duty 1... (Sorry it's not an idgame but a good example)

geo said:

People didn't like Doom 3 compared to Doom 1 & 2

It was not the engine problem , doom 3 graphic was good as an ID Tech 3 (i think) game

It was because :
1.Some of The Classic Doom main programmers (like John Romero) wasn't present.
2. Doom 3 was almost an unfinished project (for example Spider Mastermind & Archnorton sprites were not finished during the game process)
3. Doom 3 was almost a game like Doom RPG & Doom II RPG rather than Classic doom.

[snapshot]

The Doommer said:

It was because :
1.Some of The Classic Doom main programmers (like John Romero) wasn't present.
2. Doom 3 was almost an unfinished project (for example Spider Mastermind & Archnorton sprites were not finished during the game process)
3. Doom 3 was almost a game like Doom RPG & Doom II RPG rather than Classic doom.

None of these are correct except the 1st one .

[Tritnew]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

None of these are correct except the 1st one .

Yeah, the guy seems like a total noob.

[snapshot]

Tritnew said:

Yeah, the guy seems like a total noob.

Anyhow , the real reason of DOOM 3 fail was because it didn't offer something "New" , The gameplay and environments felt so repeatitive, And worst part of it is being Futuristic Marine and still having to hold your "Flashlight" instead of it being attatched on your armor or weapon .