Of Controllers and D-Pads

[hervoheebo]

Let's break the ice and discuss something pleasant. Namely game controllers and their D-Pads. Which ones do you like the best? Which ones deserve dishonorable mentions?

I'll talk mainly about the D-Pads. By far the best I've used belonged to GBASP and DS fat. They never wear out or loosen, and the satisfying click is just enough feedback to convey that the input went through. For some unimaginable reason, the D-Pad in DS Lite (and maybe onwards, don't know) is more like the older ones. The initial feel deteriorates quickly until the click is slight. It's got this "too-soft" feeling, not enough to make the entire system unusable but enough to make the difference in Lite's and fat's controls feel very noticeable.

There are some bad D-Pads. Probably an understatement. I don't remember the N64's D-Pad being very good. Wears out and has little feedback, like the GBA's, as I remember it. I hear people praising the SNES' controller, but I never had a SNES (NES->N64) so I can't comment on that. The original GBA's D-Pad is by far the worst I've used. It's not too bad at first, but it starts to wear out fast. A large part in getting an SP when it was first released (or so) was that using the D-Pad of my GBA was starting to become literally painful. Also the fact that you can't see jack shit unless you have a torch and a lamp blazing at the screen. I just dug out my GBA and even using the D-Pad a little has my thumb branded with the edges. I mean, it's so bad.

Then there's the X360 controller's D-Pad. It really sucks. I get that the sticks are supposed to be the main inputs and the D-Pad is assuming a support role, but would it have killed them to not make it so bad? It's not even cross-shaped, more like a circle. The feel is pretty bad and it wears out fast. It's unsuitable for any extensive use. Otherwise, the controller itself is very ergonomic has been pretty good for emulating stick games, but I really need a good gamepad with a responsive D-Pad. Any recommendations?
Yeah, and also discuss the controllers. In before "keyboard and mouse were here, all other controllers are for losers."

[Maes]

For some reason, most PC gamepad controllers I've tried sucked, with the exception of a Quickshot QS-217 gamepad I still have (gameport model, with two autofires). Excellent D-Pad, perfectly positioned keys, convenient separate autofiring keys.

Pretty much all newer controllers I've tried have pretty bad d-pads (in terms of hardness/responsiveness), awkward key positioning, and horrible interfaces when it comes to setting autofiring keys (almost none has default autorifing).

By contrast, most cheapo famiclones I have have pretty good controllers. Sometimes I'm really considering yanking the circuitry from a run-of-the-mill PC gamepad and stuffing it in there.

As for traditional joysticks, I still have a arcade-like gameport stick with metal construction and microswitch mechanisms: it's simply DEADLY when used with beat em up games, excellent feel and solidity, superior even to real arcade sticks. It's only problem is that it only has two (quite awkwardly) positioned buttons, so the only beat-em-ups I really used it with were One Must Fall and Body Blows.

[david_a]

I like the Sega Saturn the best (it's the one on the left). I have one of the official Sega USB versions of it.

I never liked the Nintendo-style controllers that didn't have any plastic on the diagonals; they always destroy my fingers doing quarter-circle moves in fighting games.

I had a cheap PC gamepad that actually had a good D-pad - it wasn't the QS-217, but it might actually have been a Quickshot. It looked vaguely like a PS1 ripoff (pre-DualShock).

[hex11]

My fav is the original Sega Genesis 3-button controller. It just felt right and was quite sturdy. I also find its button layout more intuitive than the cross-shapped A/B/X/Y stuff that became prevalent. It didn't have any shoulder buttons either, and didn't need them. It's pretty much a solid KISS controller that just works. Heck, I even used it with my Amiga (same exact hardware interface).

On PC, I had pretty good results with the original Gravis PC Gamepad that was sold back in the mid 90's. Somehow I ended up losing it and then wasn't able to find any decent replacement in stores. Most stuff they sell these days has tons of extra buttons and several analog sticks. And the ones I tried had lousy D-pad.

On handhelds, I've only used DS Lite. The biggest problem is the weird/tiny Start & Select buttons that are difficult to press. The other buttons and D-pad feel okay, although they are rather small, of course.

[Marnetmar]

I love the SNES D-pads.

[DoomUK]

Best? Dunno. Maybe the Mega Drive/Genesis. But it's been so long since I held one in my hands.

Worst? The original Playstation gamepad's d-pad. Not sure if that's actually a PS or PS2 pad, but since they were both shit it makes no difference. It's amazing how much gaming I did with one of those. I must have a left thumb made of steel.

EDIT: The Jaguar d-pad deserves a mention. Everything about that pad was completely horrendous.

[Lizardcommando]

I've always hated the gamecube controller's D-pad. It's so tiny and awkward. Plus, it's placed on such a weird position.

[caco_killer]

My favorite D-Pad is on the Logitech Precision Gamepad. I played games with it so much, the buttons crumbled apart. I miss that thing. :(

[Xeros612]

Sony's consoles' d-pads have always been pretty good in my experience. (Which is to say, PS1 and PS2. Specifically, the "dualshock" first party controllers.) Most precise ones I've ever used in terms of console playing. I'd honestly love something like that implemented in the 360 controller instead of the awful one that's in there now. (I heard they more or less fixed it in the new ones that came out with the 360 slim, but meh, not interested in buying more hardware for something I barely ever use.)

As for handhelds, I've only ever played the gameboy line from the original grey brick to the GBA SP. All of them felt pretty much the same to me in terms of usability and precision.

[Quast]

hervoheebo said:

There are some bad D-Pads. Probably an understatement. I don't remember the N64's D-Pad being very good. Wears out and has little feedback, like the GBA's, as I remember it. I hear people praising the SNES' controller, but I never had a SNES (NES->N64) so I can't comment on that.

The n64 d-pad did suck, but mainly because the entire controller sucks and every game was built around not using the d-pad except for trivial things. A shame really.

As for the SNES controller? Yeah, it was and still is that good and deserves every bit of praise it gets. Let me put it this way: Sony was taking cues from the SNES while designing the original psx controller and the iconic dual shock. Everything is there in it's spot except for 2 additional triggers on top and extended hand grips (and the analog sticks on the dual shock)...A controller that hasn't changed in 15 years because it simply works awesome for what it's for.

Maes said:

For some reason, most PC gamepad controllers I've tried sucked, with the exception of a Quickshot QS-217 gamepad I still have (gameport model, with two autofires). Excellent D-Pad, perfectly positioned keys, convenient separate autofiring keys.

I may have to look into that because yeah, my logitech dual action, while functional, just sucks.

[Belial]

The only use I'd have for a gamepad would be this.

[Phobus]

My experience in D-Pads:

SNES: Really good, but there's a lot of nostalgia between me and the actual experience.

Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket and Gameboy Colour: All seemed pretty good to me, from memory.

N64: Seemed like a good D-Pad, but it didn't see much use. Weird controller too, but comfortable to use, I thought.

GameCube: Nice controller - a lot more "standard" than the N64. Worked really well for fighting games I thought too (Soul Calibur 2 in particular). The D-Pad was tiny and not used much.

Wii: The standard Wiimote and nunchuck are quite comfy to use, even if all the arm movements don't work too well for most games. The button layout is intuitive enough, and the D-pad works well for me.

PS, PS2 and PS3: D-Pad not used much, but they do the trick quite well. Good controllers for comfort too, I find.

XBox360: Very ergonomic, even if holding the right trigger so much in all those driving and shooting games is fucking my index finger up. D-Pad sucks horribly though - very frequently gives input other than what I thought I was pressing.

[PRIMEVAL]

I've only ever really used the Playstation / PS2 controllers and SNES controller. No complaints about those. Lasted all these years and still going strong and they're comfortable. Tried using the XBox controllers, they're not as comfy I don't think.

[DuckReconMajor]

I prefer squishier D-pads, though if that shortens the life of the pad that's always bad.

Lizardcommando said:

I've always hated the gamecube controller's D-pad. It's so tiny and awkward. Plus, it's placed on such a weird position.

Oh definitely, I remember playing the first Zelda on the Gamecube Zelda collector's edition, and had to awkwardly play it with the stick because the D-pad was so bad.

hervoheebo said:

Then there's the X360 controller's D-Pad. It really sucks. I get that the sticks are supposed to be the main inputs and the D-Pad is assuming a support role, but would it have killed them to not make it so bad? It's not even cross-shaped, more like a circle. The feel is pretty bad and it wears out fast. It's unsuitable for any extensive use.

If you won't be doing any diagonal clicking the Evil D-pad is nice. But I think the best is this D-pad mod. I did that to one of my controllers (without the sanding which I think is unnecessary) and I think now it's probably one of the best D-pads I've ever used. It gives a satisfying click and actually registers your input. You'll need a Torx-9 security bit though, unless you can use one of the many workarounds people suggest.

I use a DualShock 3 to play some games with a D-pad but it hurts my thumb after a while.

When I was playing the Wii Virtual Console I used the Classic controller but realized that I like the Wiimote D-pad much better. The Classic D-pad is too stiff for me. I had it connected to my computer for a while and it worked great but it doesn't seem to want to work now.

[CODOR]

Maes said:
By contrast, most cheapo famiclones I have have pretty good controllers. Sometimes I'm really considering yanking the circuitry from a run-of-the-mill PC gamepad and stuffing it in there.

Do they use the same protocol as real NES controllers? If so, try this. I bought the pre-made SNES adapter that guy sells since I'm not confident enough in my soldering skills to make one myself. I don't see a pre-made NES adapter, though...

So I like the SNES controller, probably mostly for nostalgia. Like hex11, I also have a Gravis PC Gamepad (which came with one of the Commander Keen games -- probably the shareware but possibly the full version, I can't remember), which has a resemblance to the SNES controller but really isn't the same as the buttons are recessed and there's only four of them. I have a PC Gamepad Pro that sorta looks like a PS1 controller that was much better for emulating NES and SNES games but requires a PC gameport to use properly (although it should be possible to read the binary protocol it uses off the button status of a USB->gameport adapter with a custom driver, though).

[Bucket]

It's tough to find PC controllers for what I want. I think manufacturers are having a contest to see how many buttons, sticks, gyros, throttles, gizmos and doodads you can put on one pad. Hell, I just want to play some 4-player Bomberman on my laptop. You'd figure with the retro craze, I'd be able to find some simple SNES-era pads with a small form factor...

[Ultraboy94]

I find all Nintendo D-Pads right up until the Wii's were essentially the same, and they are solid reliable D-Pads (apart from my Game Boy Color's - but that was broken from when I bought it due to a previous owner).

The Megadrive's (Genesis') D-Pad is one of the most comfortable, and while the buttons are quite comfortable as well mine have lost responsiveness, I have to mash the B button in as far as possible for it to register anything, although that may be my fault for hammering it too much on Super Monaco GP.

Unlike some people I love the Playstation's D-pad. The gap in the middle where you rest your finger lets to access all directions comfortably, and makes sure your finger cannot slide off as easily.
I still use it in Playstation 3 games which allow.

I do have a boxed Gravis Destroyer PC Gamepad but for the moment it is untested. I bought it when I was a little younger thinking it was USB, brought it home and it used a game port, something my newer computer didn't have. I may be able to test it soon as I'm accuiring a Windows 98 machine in a short while.

I'd say my least favorite D-Pad is the Master System's. While the buttons work suprisingly well, the D-Pad just feels weird.

[Mr. T]

PS2 [/thread]

[Chow Yun Thin]

NES: I liked it as a kid, but as an adult with bigger hands I really dislike the boxiness. I feel the D-Pad is perfectly sized as a kid and as an adult.

Genesis: Curvier than the NES controller, but the D-Pad was a little too large as a kid. Not sure about now, it's been forever since I last picked up a Genesis controller. I didn't like how the ABC buttons were laid out though; the individual buttons were no problem, but the buttons were large and spaced out enough so you couldn't push A and C at the same time.

SNES: Fits my hands a lot better, similar D-pad. Shoulder buttons were awesome, but I found it hard to use the D-pad and the L shoulder button at the same time. The face buttons were pretty spaced out, enough so that I was using either Y and B or X and A. Since Y and B were the main buttons, I rarely shifted my hand position to reach X and A.

PS1: Fairly comfortable. The D-pad was functional, but it didn't quite click with me. The four face buttons had the same spacing issue as the SNES controller, maybe a bit less since it was in a rotated square instead of a diamond. Having two shoulder buttons on each side sounded like a good idea, but I only used my index fingers for L1/R1 or L2/R2, never middle fingers with L2/R2. And the same problem with hitting the L shoulder buttons while using the D-pad.

PS2/PS1 Dualshock: Same as PS1 controller, except they made L2/R2 bigger and more accessible. But I don't like the lack of resistance on the thumbsticks, made it too sensitive in my hands. Frigging Sony somehow keeps that damn lack of resistance for the PS3 controller too.

PS3 Dualshock: Same as PS2 controller, but I think they made it worse with L2/R2 being triggers. Can't stand trying to pull those as rapidly as possible.

N64 controller: most comfortable controller I've held, conforms very well with my hands. Thumbstick had the right amount of resistance, but sadly doesn't last very long (no thanks to doing so many 360 spins to throw Bowser into the bombs). Z-button was a simple button and felt so natural. R shoulder button was alright, but I wish I could push it with the tip of my finger instead. C buttons were small enough and close enough so my thumb could push them easily. A and B buttons were well-placed and easily accessible to the C-buttons. Rarely used the D-Pad or L shoulder button since most games didn't use them. Addons were pretty bulky and ungainly.

360 controller: Second to the N64 in comfort. Face buttons are closer together than the PS controller, but not nearly as close as the N64 C-buttons. Thumbsticks have better resistance compared to the PS controller, likely more durable than the N64 thumbstick. Right Thumbstick is close enough to face buttons so they're still accessible. Still hate trigger buttons, but at least they're positioned so your index fingers naturally rest there. Bumpers are more streamlined compared to the shoulder buttons of other controllers. D-Pad is fucking awful and poorly positioned, relegated to accessing your inventory.

Gamecube controller: not quite as comfortable as the 360 controller, but manageable. What the fuck did they do to the face buttons?! It felt so unnatural to hit X or Y and A at the same time. Shoulder buttons felt awful, requiring a longer press to get to work. Z button felt out of place as well. C-stick was okay; at least it was close to the face buttons. D-Pad was small and hard to press; did they use the GBA D-Pad for the GC controller?

I might add more for the Wiimote, Gravis Gamepad, Thrustmaster PS2/PC controller once I get my thoughts collected. Can't stand the first GBA and the DS Lite's controls.

[DoomUK]

Bucket said:

You'd figure with the retro craze, I'd be able to find some simple SNES-era pads with a small form factor

But dude, they exist.

[Blastfrog]

Ultraboy94 said:

I'd say my least favorite D-Pad is the Master System's. While the buttons work suprisingly well, the D-Pad just feels weird.

I actually opened up an MS pad before, it's so cheap and minimal. It didn't even have a full circuit board, it was only two very small boards on each side serving the purpose of nothing more than button contacts. The rest was just a few wires going directly to the external cord.

I wish I had a picture, but it was so ghetto looking.

[Maes]

CODOR said:

Do they use the same protocol as real NES controllers? If so, try this.

At a hardware level, they (should) use the same protocol, however most famiclones use DB-9 connectors (the standard serial port/ATARI joystick connector) even though they are not actually ATARI joystick compatible, and not those weirdly shaped 9-pin NES ones. However the circuit you showed me should be usable with some rewiring.

As for the shapes of said controllers, they depend on what the famiclone itself is trying to fake. Older ones looked just like traditional Famicon/NES, modern ones look mostly PSX-like, and I also have seen Mega Drive/XBox/N64-like etc. Some are REALLY cheaply made and light...and yet they work better than more expensive dedicated PC gamepads -_-

[Shaikoten]

Casting a vote for SNES. Also in terms of analog-stick eras controllers, Gamecube is my fave.

[deference]

Shaikoten said:

Gamecube

/thread

[Spazman]

I'm surprised nobody on here has mentioned the 3DO's gamepad yet. Aside from being small enough to hold and reach all the buttons good, it had like a slight curve to its design that lets you get a grip on the thing. I'm still wondering if there was a computer version of this...?

Here's a pic if you have no idea what i'm talking about :

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=3do+gamepad&hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=-6bijKwV-4hPtM:&imgrefurl=http://www.okidoki.ee/item/371002/&docid=fcFEP6uJXbPOxM&w=450&h=300&ei=vIpKTqDZMYS3tgf9-NC5Cg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=699&vpy=90&dur=141&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=173&ty=103&page=1&tbnh=125&tbnw=202&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&biw=1024&bih=571

Bonus: This thing even had a port to where you can plug any type of headphone up to it and listen to the game through it, (rolls eyes at 360 controller)

[Maes]

TheSpazztikOne said:

I'm surprised nobody on here has mentioned the 3DO's gamepad yet.

Who even HAD one of those? It's in the same league as the rest of the exotic, failed pre-PSX CD-based consoles as the CD-i, the NEO-GEO CD, the Jaguar etc.

TheSpazztikOne said:

Bonus:
This thing even had a port to where you can plug any type of headphone up to it and listen to the game through it, (rolls eyes at 360 controller)

Heh and in the meantime the only way to connect more than one controller to the system was to daisychain them.

[Spazman]

to tell the truth, i thought that idea was kinda cool. At one time, we actually had a six-man gaming spree going on, even if the games were kinda lame. And if we didn't have enough 3do controllers, we always used a separate thing to plug in a SNES controller. I think, to tell the truth, some people underestimate the 3do in gameplay value. One thing though, and i will not lie- 3do doom did suck.

[DuckReconMajor]

TheSpazztikOne said:

Bonus: This thing even had a port to where you can plug any type of headphone up to it and listen to the game through it, (rolls eyes at 360 controller)

2.5mm is common for headsets. Were you expecting dual 3.5 mm?

[Maes]

DuckReconMajor said:

2.5mm is common for headsets.

Hardly. Yeah, it became more common with cell phones having to be thinner and thinner but even that "reason" seems weak, since there are ultra-slim smartphones and mp3 players that work fine with standard 3.5mm headphones.

Let alone that even if 2.5mm headsets are common, there are still incompatible pinouts and designs without stereo sound out there, while all 3.5mm designs I've seen managed to be both fully stereo compatible (and usable with e.g. walkmans) and have an additional microphone contact. 2.5mm jacks also tend to be very flimsy :-/

[DuckReconMajor]

You were never meant to listen to game audio though it though.