The "see-through-sector" effect?

[Marnetmar]

You know those effects you'd see in Final Doom and some other WADs where you'll see a transparent texture but it's actually a door? (Example, MAP21 of TNT). How does one make this effect work?

[Use]

It's typically a self-referencing sector, where both sides of the linedefs refer to itself. These can be manipulated much like a normal sector, but some node builders will mess them up. In the game they look invisible. Its a similar effect used on vanilla 3d bridges, the self-referencing sector is the thing you stand on going over it.
It's best when they move instantly or beyond the player's view, as a small HOM will appear as the sector raises/lowers past your perspective.

One thing to remember if using them as a door is that they do not touch the floor. If the self-referencing sector is closed the engine draws it as a column and the effect is broken.

[Marnetmar]

But how does one actually create them? All of this fancy-schmancy self-referencing sector stuff is too much for my wee brain.

(Not really, but I've never really gone beyond the very basics of mapping)

[Gez]

It is vanilla mapping.

Oh, no fair, you've edited your post. :p

[Use]

Make two sectors. Sector 1 should be nested within sector 0. Sector 1's lines are two-sided. In Deepsea, using linedef mode, select the lines of sector 1, right click. Change the sector reference number on the front side from 0 to 1. Note the back sidedefs already refer to sector 1. The sector is now self-referencing. You can apply masked textures to it now, and use a negative y offset to properly align the texture assuming it's a cage-door. Remember to leave a tiny space between the ceiling and floor. Don't connect the self-referencing sector to any other sectors or lines, even by a vertex.

[Marnetmar]

Use3D said:

Make two sectors. Sector 1 should be nested within sector 0. Sector 1's lines are two-sided. In Deepsea, using linedef mode, select the lines of sector 1, right click. Change the sector reference number on the front side from 0 to 1. Note the back sidedefs already refer to sector 1. The sector is now self-referencing. You can apply masked textures to it now, and use a negative y offset to properly align the texture assuming it's a cage-door. Remember to leave a tiny space between the ceiling and floor. Don't connect the self-referencing sector to any other sectors or lines, even by a vertex.

I assume this can only be done in Deepsea? I tried it in Doom Builder and the effect did not work properly...

However, Deepsea seems to be mentally retarded...

[esselfortium]

It should be doable in pretty nearly any editor, Doom Builder included.

Also, looks like you let XWE get to your iwad.

[Marnetmar]

I would never use XWE on an IWAD!

[Use]

Marnetmar said:

I assume this can only be done in Deepsea?

Heh no of course not, it's just what I use. You should probably check out a wad where the desired effect is present, for example, there's a see-through cagedoor in map12 of cchest.wad, at X:-702 Y:226 :)

[Marnetmar]

Ah, I see. I asked because I did the same thing in DB and nothing happened.

Also, I checked out MAP21 of TNT which has the kind of effect I'm trying to achieve (It's the cage with the mancubus and imps) but I noticed that it's actually NOT a self referencing sector...

I'm confuzzled now :/

[Searcher]

In the deep sea help file there is/was a tutorial on how to create an invisible door. their help files and tutorials are well written.

[Marnetmar]

Wasn't able to find it.

Anyway, clearly I'm doing something wrong...

[Zom-B]

There are two types of see-through sectors.

1. Invisible platforms, these use self-referencing sectors

2. Invisible doors, these just use clever use of textures


I assume you mean the second one, so here's how:

Just make a regular door. Forget the upper textures. Make all three ceiling textures F_SKY1. Done.

[Marnetmar]

Err, I don't really want to use a sky texture though...How was it done in TNT?

[Memfis]

Here is my method: http://www.mediafire.com/?rfz8q9ytke71wuo
Works with ZDBSP, doesn't work with ZenNode

[esselfortium]

Memfis said:

Here is my method: http://www.mediafire.com/?rfz8q9ytke71wuo
Works with ZDBSP, doesn't work with ZenNode

It might work in ZenNode if you swap the sector numbers around some. ZenNode is picky about sector ordering when it comes to referencing-related tricks.

[Marnetmar]

Memfis said:

Here is my method: http://www.mediafire.com/?rfz8q9ytke71wuo
Works with ZDBSP, doesn't work with ZenNode

Well that's just fine and dandy...But how did you actually create that? I see that the door sector is an unclosed sector but that's it. I don't know how you did that.

[Memfis]

How I do it in Doom Builder 1.68:
Create dummy sector outside of the map. Select the lines with DOORTRAK texture. Right click on them. Go to sidedefs. Change their front side sector to that dummy sector. You can now delete the other lines of dummy sector.

esselfortium: Indeed, sometimes it works. Thanks.

[natt]

Unless you are specifically making vanilla maps, you should never use any of the node builder hocus pocus to make invisible sectors. Boom linedef 242 is your friend.

[Marnetmar]

Memfis said:

How I do it in Doom Builder 1.68:
Create dummy sector outside of the map. Select the lines with DOORTRAK texture. Right click on them. Go to sidedefs. Change their front side sector to that dummy sector. You can now delete the other lines of dummy sector.

esselfortium: Indeed, sometimes it works. Thanks.

It worked! Thank you so much!

[Wagi]

Also, be careful when making self referencing sectors into doors, donuts, "raise to highest adjacent" or other actions that look for adjacent sector's properties. Without an extra step, you may have your door instantly lower into the floor when you try to open it, or it may just continue opening forever (I've had this happen to me before). If you want it to work properly, you'll have to have your self-referencing sector share a linedef with another sector somewhere in the map.