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Kappes Buur

Is there an updated Doomgraph ?

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I suppose you're not going to post a larger image so I can tell what the hell I'm looking at?

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Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize that Tinypic will scale the size down when the image is linked.

Here is the full scale image

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Oh wow, maybe I shouldn't have complained about it, because now this thread is like half a mile in length. That said, I'm a little put off by the arrangement of the hierarchy. Why does Jaguar Doom branch off into other console variants? Wouldn't it make more sense if all the console versions branched from a new root, like "Console Dooms" or something? And why bother featuring several versions of Doom 2, rather than just lumping it into a single "Doom 2" root? Why is only the fist Quake mentioned, with the only other related item being a website? Why feature so many versions of source ports, instead of just the latest version of each? Why is there no legend to make it clear what the different colors and dashed lines specify? I know you didn't make this, so it's not like I'm asking you, but I feel that this image was 99% about the research, and 1% about the actual arrangement.

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GoatLord said:

Why does Jaguar Doom branch off into other console variants?

Probably because most of the console ports were actually based on Jaguar Doom's code and/or its modified map set.

And why bother featuring several versions of Doom 2, rather than just lumping it into a single "Doom 2" root?

Because Strife is based on the older v1.666 code, while other things are based on v1.9? The difference is relevant enough to warrant distinction.

Why is only the fist Quake mentioned, with the only other related item being a website?

Quakeworld isn't just the name of a website, it's an updated version of Quake. Quake is probably there because of the engines which reuse Quake code. Notice the dashed lines running to Vavoom, etc.

I'm not sure why you'd want to dumb everything down.

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Some of those relationships are hard to see, and I think at least one of them is wrong. SDL Doom is a direct ancestor of LinuxDoom, but in this graph it has a black arrow coming from who knows where.

The XDoom node should be green. You can find the source code in the regular place:
/idgames/source/xdoom-20000723.tar.gz
/idgames/source/xdoom-20001001.tar.gz

There were some other (newer?) xdoom releases, advertised on Usenet newsgroups back in those days, but they're not on /idgames. I think Andre Majorel (author of Yadex) might have them though, because that's who I grabbed my copies from when I couldn't find them anywhere else. Unfortunately, that was a decade ago, and I no longer have those other releases...

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Mithran Denizen, I'd want to dumb things down so the chart is easier to read. The arrangement is a hideous mess and a lot of those things could either be removed or lumped into a single label. It reminds me of when I tried to make a "metal map," and it started to get really ridiculous and visually confusing when I tried to include tiny sub-genres like pornogrind, blackened thrash, war metal, etc.

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You need to add Mocha Doom in there, as a direct descendant of linuxdoom v1.10 (and, if you can, show that it's also a bastard child of Boom/prBoom+ ;-)

As for CDoom (the one from Carlos), isn't that an MBF derivative?

Edit: nm, I saw that there are two "CDoom" ports in there :-/ How do you tell them apart?

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The chart isn't really meant to be easy to read. It's supposed to be as easy to read as possible for something that is nitpicky and exhaustive.

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Maes said:

You need to add Mocha Doom in there

Mocha Doom is still in the alpha stage according to SourceForge.
It is probably a bad idea to include pre-beta ports in the chart
(there will be thousands, most of which are only known to one or two people.)

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finnw said:

Mocha Doom is still in the alpha stage according to SourceForge.

Maes == Velktron; if it weren't obvious enough.

finnw said:

It is probably a bad idea to include pre-beta ports in the chart
(there will be thousands, most of which are only known to one or two people.)

Well, some ports only known to one or two people are already in there.

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finnw said:

Mocha Doom is still in the alpha stage according to SourceForge.
It is probably a bad idea to include pre-beta ports in the chart
(there will be thousands, most of which are only known to one or two people.)


Perhaps calling it "Alpha" doesn't do it much justice at this phase.

The more I use it, the more I'm convinced that by now it's as least as functional (if not more) than e.g. Doom95 for single player at least. But I admit that I'm undecided about promoting it to Beta or even to a first "stable" release before I slip some more features in. Networking is completely missing, but I am much more attracted to coding in Boom/limit removing features (I'm borrowing heavily from prBoom+, BTW. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to map and adapt concepts).

The current CVS build even has Boom-like resource coalescing and supports flats/sprites in PWADS, and DEH support is not far away either.

OK, there are thousands of obscure "proof of concept" ports out there but you gotta admit that Mocha Doom sticks out for several reasons, not the least of which is that the author (yeah, that's me) actually gives a damn about the community and had the decency of keeping things open and very explicit from the start (compare this with CDoom's semi-obfuscated "source code", or projects like Doomcott that never got released). Regarding the latter, I'm considering releasing a fully functional decompilation, so it can at least be partially preserved.

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