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spartacusuvw

Least favourite Final Doom levels and Master Levels

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Following on from yellowmadness's thread, thought I'd create one for the worst levels on Final Doom and the Master Levels

TNT
Level 4: Too short and so much of the map can be skipped
Level 15: Can't explain why I dislike this one, I just do.
Level 19: Half-assed level which is really easy and doesn't fit in with Levels 18, 20 and 21.
Level 24: This one seems rather half-assed and too similar to Level 23

Plutonia
Level 18: Lazy copy of map 14
Level 19: Another lazy map, start copied E2M1
Level 21: Lazy copy of map 11
Level 24: Lazy copy of map 29
Level 30: Disappointing way to end after the awesomeness of levels 25-29.

Master Levels
NESSUS: Sure it's good as a DM map but on single player it's pretty lame
CATWALK: Because of those annoying platforms that raise and lower themselves at the start
BAD DREAM: Pointless.wad

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From the last thread:

SeanWJF said:

If we're counting Plutonia, I hate Map11 - Hunted with a fiery burning passion.

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Seriously, Maps 4 and 15 being bad levels of TNT Evilution? I thought they were not bad. Sure they can be done quickly, but this could be because they were also intended to be for DM, so they should be forgiven. I liked the industrial setting of Map 19, though I agree it's ridiculously easy after the hard Map 18. Map 24 looked a bit like Map 23, I can say, but it had more of the subterranean feel than the preceeding map since the other had more tech to it. Map 26 reminded me of Inferno, most of Map 29 felt like Thy Flesh Consumned, not to mention parts of Map 28 which lifts Doom 2's Map 28, and the maze from Map 18, and they're still good maps. If I had to vote, then I would say Maps 14 and 20. They're not that bad, if weren't for the backtracking you do on those maps, especially Map 20 considering its immense size, increasing the time length to complete the map, and Map 9 was a terribly cramped level, despite its awesome tech design.

If you're going to call some of the Plutonia maps lazy copies of some of the maps of Doom 2, you could count Maps 4 and 15 for being similar to Map 26, Map 7 copying the idea of Doom 2's Map 7, Map 12 for copying the style of Thy Flesh Consumned's wood maps, first half of Map 19 looking like the first half of E2M1, Map 22 copying the style of Knee Deep (excused since other mappers do that then and now), and also, Map 27 is another map that reminds me of Map 29, and Plutonia's Map 29 is like a hellish variant of Maps 13 and 15. You could even dislike Map 32 for taking Map 1, also done on Punisher.wad, another Casali map. I thought most of the maps were alright, and Map 30 was somewhat intense to me.

Now, I can agree about Bad Dream, because it was bland, only has a few rooms, with enemies (cyberdemons) only being in one room that crushes them. So it makes finding the secret exit in Teeth.wad a waste of time. Not one of Sverre's best works, he done better in Eternal Doom.

Also need to point out that Map 3 of TNT Evilution had the similar texture scheme of Doom 2's Map 4, and yeah, navigating the maze from Plutonia's Map 11 can be a real pain due to linedefs opening certain doors.

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T-Rex said:

Seriously, Maps 4 and 15 being bad levels of TNT Evilution? I thought they were not bad. Sure they can be done quickly, but this could be because they were also intended to be for DM, so they should be forgiven.


I don't agree with that viewpoint, DM or not DM you shouldn't be able to complete it so quickly. Besides I don't see map 4 being a good DM map anyway. map 15 didn't have much to it I guess, plus the architecture's quite dull.

T-Rex said:
If you're going to call some of the Plutonia maps lazy copies of some of the maps of Doom 2, you could count Maps 4 and 15 for being similar to Map 26, Map 7 copying the idea of Doom 2's Map 7, Map 12 for copying the style of Thy Flesh Consumned's wood maps, first half of Map 19 looking like the first half of E2M1, Map 22 copying the style of Knee Deep (excused since other mappers do that then and now), and also, Map 27 is another map that reminds me of Map 29, and Plutonia's Map 29 is like a hellish variant of Maps 13 and 15. You could even dislike Map 32 for taking Map 1, also done on Punisher.wad, another Casali map. I thought most of the maps were alright, and Map 30 was somewhat intense to me.


I don't care so much if they're similar than if they're just lazy copies. Map 4 is a lazy copy of level 26 I admit, but I didn't notice that on my first playthrough (!) so that's why it's omitted. And I liked the 'nowhere to hide' feel of map 15. Map 29 does indeed seem like a hellish level 13, but I would call it sufficiently different from level 13 to avoid the tag 'lazy copy'. Map 27 is mediocre actually, should've mentioned that when saying maps 25-29 are awesome.
Map 30 was better than Last Call, but really you're not doing anything different to level 30 in Doom 2.

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For TNT:

Map04 - I fucking hate this map since it's a shit to max on, I just prefer speedrun.
Map07 - Hitscans everywhere!
Map15 - The secrets are hard to memorize, and the monsters near the end doesn't cooperate well!
Map21 - Too large this map is.
Map29 - Everything sucks in this map, I am a noob at dealing multiple crushers, that archvile wastes me time and ammo too!

For Plutonia:

Map08 - No Armor.
Map11 - Although I am good at killing archviles, but I hate mazes!!!
Map12 - Hitscan and chaingunnies everywhere, I am not so speedy-well.
Map16 - Too much revenants!
Map18 - Lazy copy of inmost dens, and this map is ugly too!
Map19 - I am not your NME!

For Master Levels:

Sorry I havn't play it yet!!!

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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

For TNT:
Map21 - Too large this map is.


Strange you don't say map 20 then as I would have said map 20 was bigger than map 21. map 18 is quite the beast as well.

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spartacusuvw said:

Strange you don't say map 20 then as I would have said map 20 was bigger than map 21. map 18 is quite the beast as well.


Map20 is indeed larger than map21, but map20 is a fun map and can finish it quicker since there's not too much repeated route and it's straight forward. For the largest map in TNT, I think it should be map21, followed by 20 then 27, finally 18. But I do like map18, it's a fun map.

And I forget to mention that I also dislike Plutonia map20, the stupid teleporting system sucks ass!

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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

Map20 is indeed larger than map21, but map20 is a fun map and can finish it quicker since there's not too much repeated route and it's straight forward. For the largest map in TNT, I think it should be map21, followed by 20 then 27, finally 18. But I do like map18, it's a fun map.

And I forget to mention that I also dislike Plutonia map20, the stupid teleporting system sucks ass!


For map 27 on my first playthrough I was really disappointed that when you teleported to the outside bit, it ended the level. I reckon it would have been awesome if there was a final battle that took place there. Map 18 is fun though I did get horrendously stuck on my first playthrough.

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Only one out of those I dislike is TNT MAP04 because is it can be finished so quickly even though you can tell from the stats there is a lot more map too see, but it can all be bypassed so easily.

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spartacusuvw said:

For map 27 on my first playthrough I was really disappointed that when you teleported to the outside bit, it ended the level. I reckon it would have been awesome if there was a final battle that took place there. Map 18 is fun though I did get horrendously stuck on my first playthrough.


I have got this expect too in map27, but I am fine since there's imps slaughter before the outdoor battle.

The whole map18 actually is fun, only that trapped archvile in the beginning is annoying.

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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

Map07 - Hitscans everywhere!
Map15 - The secrets are hard to memorize, and the monsters near the end doesn't cooperate well!
Map21 - Too large this map is.
Map29 - Everything sucks in this map, I am a noob at dealing multiple crushers, that archvile wastes me time and ammo too!

Map08 and Map09 have more hitscanners than Map07 of Evilution, I'm afraid. I didn't have problems finding the secrets of Map15, though what bugs me is that there's a small sector around the crater which doesn't raise revealing monsters, preventing you from getting 100% kills. I can agree with Map21 being ridiculously large, but I thought Map29 was fun.

Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

Map16 - Too much revenants!

More like too many teleporting monsters, but yeah, they're mostly revenants.

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