Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Megamur

Oldest SP MegaWAD?

Recommended Posts

Does anyone know what the oldest, single-player megaWAD is? And I mean a megaWAD that was actually designed to be a megaWAD, not one of these "collection" WADs where some guy stole a bunch of maps and crammed them all together into one huge WAD. With a timestamp of March 21st, 1996, nothing on /idgames seems older than Icarus: Alien Vanguard. Can anyone recall any earlier examples?

I find it a bit surprising that no one ever attempted to make a whole new, game-replacing set of SP maps before Icarus, but I guess it's not impossible.

Share this post


Link to post

You'll probably hate me for this - Chambers of Death v1.2 (DMCHAMB.WAD) in this archive dates to November 1995, according to it's text file. I'll see what else I can turn up.

Share this post


Link to post

njdoom.wad is from 1994. Enjay released a lot of the maps earlier as episodes or by themselves, but it's all his stuff, not a random wadpak. Later on, he made a Doom II version with a couple extra maps by someone else (I played that version earlier this year, it's really good!)

Reviews here:
http://www.doomworld.com/php/topstory.php?id=2790

Discussion about file timestamps:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/19668-team-tnt-daedalus/2/

Share this post


Link to post

Memento Mori was originally released in 1995. The 1996 release was an update, I believe.

H2H-Xmas was finished in Dec of 95, though the archive date is February 96. Granted, a few of its maps were previously released as the H2H MUD competition maps.

Also recall that Icarus was created post-Evilution, with Icarus being released during its long post-production period.

Share this post


Link to post

It'd have to be Enjay Doom - or more specifically Come Out Fighting if episode replacements count as megawads. I do believe it was the first of its kind.

Share this post


Link to post
valkiriforce said:

I thought Cleimos 2 was completed before that. Something else might have come out before that, though.


Like Cleimos itself? :-p

1995-1996 was already pretty "mature" as far Doom and Doom II levels went. I'm sure there were lots of legitimate megawads "designed to be megawads" in 1994 too, the very least with all the maps made by the same author.

I very rarely stumbled upon something containing other people's unrelated WADs compiled into a single bunch back in the day, that's more of a source port-era phenomenon, so that's mostly a non-issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

I very rarely stumbled upon something containing other people's unrelated WADs compiled into a single bunch back in the day, that's more of a source port-era phenomenon, so that's mostly a non-issue.


wadpak*.wad and epi*best.wad would like a word :P

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

I very rarely stumbled upon something containing other people's unrelated WADs compiled into a single bunch back in the day, that's more of a source port-era phenomenon, so that's mostly a non-issue.

Heh - I seem to stumble over them all the time. 45 of the wadpaks in the listing below are the work of one person who appears to have set himself the task of re-releasing every Doom map available at that time (February 1995) in megawad form. My Doom II wadpak collection is about half that size and more deathmatch oriented.


(1170x615 - 94k)

Share this post


Link to post

TOQH my on-disc Doom shovelware collection came before wadpak* or that other shit, so maybe that's a good thing after all ;-)

Just for you, niggaz, I'll sort through my Doomania shovelware CD and report my findings on the megawads that were there. Not too many of them, but they definitively were there, and were unique. Sadly, this includes even George Fiffy stuff such as WolfenDoom.

Share this post


Link to post

I think it probably was NJ Doom for the first Doom. Possibly BF_THUD! as far as Doom II megawads are concerned, though that one had a few previously released maps in it.

Share this post


Link to post

OK, let's see what my Doomania CD from 1994 has to offer, by excluding stuff like DMINATOR.WAD which is just (badly) modified id levels. I also only checked out stuff exceeding 1 MB in file size, so there's probably more.

Doom 1:

  • The original Cleimos or "CLEIM10.wad" by Rand and Steven Phares, dated 20/8/1994. Replaces E2.
  • Special Operation Force or "DMSOF.wad" by Gabriel Basco Guimaraens. Dated 23/8/1994. Replaces E1. The one in idgames is a 2005 reupload.
  • SERENITY II aka ETERNITY (v1.0) or "eternity.wad" (archive has v1.1) but nothing to do with Team TNT's Eternity. Dated 31/10/1994. Replaces E2 (minus E2M9). There was also a previous episode called "Serenity".
  • EPSA.WAD (Seems to be Hades House of Horrors by some Robert Zubek guy, but I can't find the text file). Dated 30/4/1994 but may be more recent. E2 replacement with new music. E2N9 seems to be Dead Base, though :-S
  • Knee Deep ][ - Bloodbath or DMBBATH.WAD. Dated 2/9/1994. E1 replacement. Not on idgames.
  • "The Enjay replacement for the shores of hell" or NJ_SOH1.WAD. Dated 10/7/1994. Replaces E2 obviously, not on idgames.
  • Darkgate by some "Astaroth" dude. MInimal text file. Dated 30/8/1994 (archive has 2007 reupload by funduke). E1 replacement.
  • Doom "Sacrifice" episode or SACRFICE.WAD (DMSACR.ZIP) by Ty Halderman and Robert Taylor (!). Dated 8/9/1994. Replaces E1.
etc. etc.

I think you get the gist. There are probably many more for Doom 1 alone, and at least as many for Doom II (and this compilation is quite old, e.g. newest Doom 1 WAD is dated 9/1/1995).

For what I can tell, at least the ones I listed were all the work of a single person or team and compiled into one WAD (with the exception of that EPSA one). They may not all satisfy the "condition" that there's a story/theme holding these levels together (some do, in fact, state the opposite or nothing relevant), and some may not be masterpieces. But surely they discredit this weird belief that there were no legitimate megawads in 1994.

Share this post


Link to post

I believe that Megamur is savvy enough to recognize the many episode replacements on idgames. He is likely using a different definition of megaWAD than you, replacing most if not all of the game's levels.

I avoided mentioning BF_THUD! as it was actually a collection of Klie's THUD series, three episodes for Doom II.

Share this post


Link to post

TBQH, Doom I All-episode replacements were much rarer, perhaps because of the episode subdivision which would forcibly stop any attempt at continuity.

Sure, if Megamur or anyone else expects Doom-II like 32-non-stop-level kind of megawads for Doom I, he will of course be disappointed. The only "multi-episode megawad" I can readily think of is the Lost Episodes commercial level pack.

However, if we stick to his words literally, he considers a "proper megawad" whatever was designed to include more than (one? two?) levels from their same authors and not as a result of third-party repackaging, in particular not the Perseus or funduke kind ;-)

With that definition, Serenity, Serenity II and Serenity III as well as Cleimos would fit the "megawad" definition, and probably many others as well. It's not as if idgames is short on pre-1995 "episode replacements". But it's interesting to notice that multi-episode replacements were rarer ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

TBQH, Doom I All-episode replacements were much rarer, perhaps because of the episode subdivision which would forcibly stop any attempt at continuity.

Sure, if Megamur or anyone else expects Doom-II like 32-non-stop-level kind of megawads for Doom I, he will of course be disappointed. The only "multi-episode megawad" I can readily think of is the Lost Episodes commercial level pack.

However, if we stick to his words literally, he considers a "proper megawad" whatever was designed to include more than (one? two?) levels from their same authors and not as a result of third-party repackaging, in particular not the Perseus or funduke kind ;-)

With that definition, Serenity, Serenity II and Serenity III as well as Cleimos would fit the "megawad" definition, and probably many others as well. It's not as if idgames is short on pre-1995 "episode replacements". But it's interesting to notice that multi-episode replacements were rarer ;-)


Actually, his language is quite clear.

Megamur said:

a whole new, game-replacing set of SP maps


If every map isn't replaced, it doesn't qualify.

Share this post


Link to post
kmxexii said:

If every map isn't replaced, it doesn't qualify.


So, something that replaces e.g. 30 or 31 maps in Doom II wouldn't quality? Do 18 maps in Doom II qualify? An entire episode in Doom I? An episode minus one level?

If he really means only full-blown all-original 32-map WADs for Doom II that really encompasses a minor proportion of what has been historically been referred as "megawads", including many famous TCs like Obituary or Alien Doom.

Interestingly, the wiki mentions a very specific number of "15 or more levels", and mentions "episode replacements" in the same article, but without giving them a clear status. If there ever were decent multi-episode replacements for Doom I (in particular for Ultimate Doom), now that would be something fresh to learn.

But even "15 or more levels" is arbitrary. So 14 should make you feel cheated or something? How about 13?

My opinion? If well designed and sufficiently immersive/giving an illusion of unity/continuity you can have a "megawad" even consisting of 2 levels (e.g. try Dead Base + Mountain of Fire for Doom 1) or one single big-ass level or a pseudo-hub (E.g. Deus Vult, Cleimos).

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

So, something that replaces e.g. 30 or 31 maps in Doom II wouldn't quality? Do 18 maps in Doom II qualify? An entire episode in Doom I? An episode minus one level?

If he really means only full-blown all-original 32-map WADs for Doom II that really encompasses a minor proportion of what has been historically been referred as "megawads", including many famous TCs like Obituary or Alien Doom.

Interestingly, the wiki mentions a very specific number of "at least 15 levels", and mentions "episode replacements" in the same article, but without giving them a clear status. If there ever were decent multi-episode replacements for Doom I (in particular for Ultimate Doom), now that would be something fresh to learn.

My opinion? If well designed and sufficiently immersive/giving an illustion of unity you can have a "megawad" even consisting of 4 levels or one single big-ass level or a pseudo-hub (E.g. Deus Vult, Cleimos).


I'm just saying, he's specifically talking about game-replacing megaWADs. Which, prior to Icarus, were quite rare, but not non-existant.

Share this post


Link to post
kmxexii said:

I'm just saying, he's specifically talking about game-replacing megaWADs. Which, prior to Icarus, were quite rare, but not non-existant.


Yet another vague term. Game replacing? Aka Total Conversions? Then that would include a lot of stuff that would definitively not qualify as megawads (there are even TCs without levels).

E.g. if you really need to stick to an anally precise number then according to the archive the only Doom 1 "megawads" that properly fit its definition of a megawad were made from 1997 and afterwards (!) not counting of course the Lost Episodes commercial pack, and then only one (Invasion v1.9) was made in the 90s. All others are from 2000 and onwards, and I'm not even sure if there's really one replacing every damn last level.

The archive makes it even more complex by lumping certain stuff like Memento Mori into the "themes" category, rather than "megawads", though I couldn't readily find a definition for what constitutes a "theme".

Anyway, sticking to such arbitrary definitions is ridiculous, just like that guy who claimed that he played only WADs with more than 4 stars or somesuch. My proposal? Play something for yourself and see if YOU get that "mega" feeling from it. I surely wouldn't get it from something like this, even if it "earned" its place in 'megawads' ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

Yet another vague term. Game replacing? Aka Total Conversions? Then that would include a lot of stuff that would definitively not qualify as megawads (there are even TCs without levels).

E.g. if you really need to stick to an anally precise number then according to the archive the only Doom 1 "megawads" that properly fit its definition of a megawad were made from 1997 and afterwards (!) not counting of course the Lost Episodes commercial pack, and then only one (Invasion v1.9) was made in the 90s. All others are from 2000 and onwards, and I'm not even sure if there's really one replacing every damn last level.

The archive makes it even more complex by lumping certain stuff like Memento Mori into the "themes" category, rather than "megawads", though I couldn't readily find a definition for what constitutes a "theme".

Anyway, sticking to such arbitrary definitions is ridiculous, just like that guy who claimed that he played only WADs with more than 4 stars or somesuch. My proposal? Play something for yourself and see if YOU get that "mega" feeling from it. I surely wouldn't get it from something like this, even if it "earned" its place in 'megawads' ;-)


I thought his request was pretty obvious! He can come around and clarify his intent, but it's right there. My personal feeling as to what constitutes a megaWAD isn't germane to the discussion. And at this point we're just shitting up this thread with a semantics argument, so I'm stopping.

Share this post


Link to post

*shrug* aren't such discussions ALWAYS about semantics? What's the point of even entering one if you are gonna call that card, sooner or later?

It's like if I asked "what's the oldest SP good WAD ever using Dehacked 2.1?". Even with such -apparent- precision, you can still nitpick at a lot of stuff e.g. how extensively Dehacked was used, if it merely replaced a string etc. :-p

Share this post


Link to post

I should've known that bickering would be the only thing that would cause so many posts to crop up in this topic so fast. :)

But yes, when I said "MegaWAD," I was thinking of a WAD that replaces all 32 maps of DOOM II, or all three episodes of DOOM, or all four episodes of Ultimate DOOM. (Or all levels/episodes sans the secret levels.) Icarus was the earliest example I found on my own of a WAD that replaces every level of its respective game. Generally, if a levelset only replaced one episode, I would personally call it an "episode replacement," as I generally consider a "MegaWAD" to be something that replaces all levels in the game (with or without secret levels).

Of course, that's not to say that I don't appreciate you looking around for early episode replacements, Maes, as I'm still interested in what you found. A Ty Halderman/Robert Taylor collaboration, in particular, sounds most interesting. :)

NJ Doom is definitely a must-play.

Share this post


Link to post

Megawad was defined by the archive, as far as we know, so the 15+ level idea should work, at least in vanilla terms. It kind of means "2 episodes or more". A single episode WAD would just be "an episode". WADs like Darkening (12 levels) and Equinox (13 levels) feel like long episode. You can always say "full megawad" or "wad that replaces every level" for 32 or 27/36 level megawads.

Share this post


Link to post

So I know this thread has been dormant for awhile, but wanted to re-visit it. I hope I am not breaking too many rules. But with the 25th anniversary of Doom I wanted to celebrate the community of Doom rather than just the game itself. So I set out to find the Oldest Mega Wad. The oldest one I found is a 24 map set call BF_Thud V2.1 released in January, 1995. I am doing this for a stream I am doing and my search results always came to this page. So this is really me reaching out to the rest of the community trying to find a similar thing. But I think i hit this nail on the head. I had to use the Doom Wiki which then catalogged all wads they had. Here is the link I used. Let me know if there is an all Episode map pack or similar even earlier, but I am not seeing anything from before 1994. 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/List_of_notable_WADs

Share this post


Link to post

As Phobus mentions earlier in this thread, Enjay Doom (replacing the three episodes of the original Doom) was actually finished and originally published in 1994 - just not on /idgames.

 

Dan Krempel's RAGE Doom was released around the same time but, again, not to /idgames. It's less auspicious since it doesn't replace the entirety of each episode and is selective of which ones it does.

 

Additionally, the "finished" BF_THUD ought to be a 29-map replacement, not 24.

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×