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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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The sides of the hole in the ceiling the Revenant/Arch-vile is released from in Plutonia MAP01 is textured with crate textures. First noticed this in PSX Final Doom and assumed it was a bad texture conversion, but sure enough it's the same way on PC.

 

 

plutoniamap01cratehole.png

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26 minutes ago, 129thVisplane said:

Remember when I said the Doom water texture is actually the alpha nukage texture skewed 45 degrees? Well TIL the alpha nukage texture is actually from Shadowcaster. At least according to the Shadowcaster texturepack on r667.

So that leads us to this quite interesting (to me) sequence of texture adjustments inbetween games, which I also learned about today:

(yes i did the research myself, i was bored at 4am and have a weird obsession with textures lately)

unknown.png

+ a bonus:

unknown.png

(note that aside from doom and the alphas, i used exclusively textures i got from the realm667 texturepacks so they might not even be real. but i have to trust the packers since i never played shadowcaster or quake 2)

 

Nothing weird about it: This stuff is fascinating! Thank you! I am amazed at how much use id got out of their resources.

Actually, that's not what's amazing. What's amazing is how well it worked to fool...me, anyway: I have to admit that, in 25 years of Doom, I can't honestly say that I've seen more than a couple or so. I would love to compile all the posts from all the threads where people have noticed texture/flat/sprite re-use, into one big document, just to see the extent of re-use. I know there's a lot: Missiles vs. lost soul, barrel and cyberdemon death, and many more.

 

You can't really blame id, either: Doom has a *lot* of graphic resources, and 2 guys did it all. And, if you're as good as they were at it, why not get some re-use? Nice find!

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The PSXDOOM renderer does not like self-referencing sector tricks.

 

PSOGL2_002.png.0ba53e48d65f3ec53cc119b277d0e355.pngPSOGL2_003.png.2219daf83717cf359f52ab561ccd68cd.pngPSOGL2_004.png.311f1734a685702a67f1f6edfbf936cb.png

 

(Ignore the horribly stretched wall textures, that's a known quirk with extreme sector heights)

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7 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

@129thVisplane Wasn't Heretic's water flat also derived from Shadowcaster?

After inspecting heretic.wad's flats (And comparing the two)... no, it doesn't seem like it.

1646912164_Webp.net-gifmaker(1).gif.dbebd885561a483bfe37e7bb503ffcb2.gifWebp.net-gifmaker.gif.2b05766f4874a8646c2c2fc394af2144.gif

Although I have a feeling that the one from Heretic is just Shadowcaster's flat recolored, flipped on its side, and scaled down (That might be the case, since both Shadowcaster and Heretic were made by Raven Software).

Edited by GamingMarine : There was a weird typo I made

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I think @Lila Feuer meant this one:

image.png.0aafa182b9d1d8970ac6995a4fcb9bc4.png (shadowcaster to the left, heretic to the right)

I tried really hard to find a pattern match (even between mixing and matching of the whole animation sequences) but had no luck, so the Heretic one might be just very similar instead of recycled. On topic of water texture recycling, though, Mageslayer recycles Hexen 1's X_WATER4/X_008 and somehow manages to make it look even worse:

image.png.e0125b4ac6528ee12478c0a05193bc88.png 

(also not Doom related but TIL you can just upload images straight to doomworld by pasting them in from the clipboard)

 

Also, while not entirely related to recycling textures, I'm gonna take a wild guess that this particular rock texture was part of some kinda royalty-free image pack back in the day, so that's another thing i just found out:

image.png.0d7b6b67a71d3a7f6d00c45c55d838f2.png

 

//One more edit, not related to textures this time but related to games sharing assets:

I just found out by complete accident that the assault trooper death sound (preddy.voc) from Duke3D is basically the same sound as DSPDIEHI but pitched way down. I always thought DSPDIEHI was the voice of someone at id (the mental image of John Romero screaming into a mic was amusing) but apparently not. If it's a stock sound, i wonder where else it was used, if anywhere.

And speaking of Doom engine games and Duke3d sharing sounds, ROAM58.VOC (assault trooper active sound) is pretty much identical to CENT2 (ettin active sound) from Hexen. I didn't just find that out, but i did notice it a few weeks ago.

Edited by 129thVisplane : oh great, first textures and now sounds

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Not related to Doom itself, but GZDoom Builder.

You can scale textures to match the dimensions of selected surfaces in 3D Mode with Ctrl+Alt+A.

It only works on walls, though, not flats, which is stupid, unless it's been fixed in later GZDoom Builder builds.

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10 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

DOOM0007.png.3171009c645574fbf7841a41b6e834e3.png

 

First time I notice this: the cacodemon's lump next to his ass turns blue when he's attacking. 

 

Which map and hud is that?

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In the original SETUP.EXE, when you move around in a menu, it is supposed to play a 50hz tone. Yes, 50.

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1 hour ago, Linguica said:

In the original SETUP.EXE, when you move around in a menu, it is supposed to play a 50hz tone. Yes, 50.

That's very odd. Do you think it's a sample, or just a generated sine wave, or something?

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8 hours ago, Linguica said:

In the original SETUP.EXE, when you move around in a menu, it is supposed to play a 50hz tone. Yes, 50.

Mains hum? Cute.

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Just found out ZDoom doesn't have the "standalone secret sector" (type 9), only the Boom secret sector typeflag (128 in Doom map format, 1024 in Hexen map format). In Doom format maps, sector type 9 is translated to the Boom type, but Hexen format maps aren't translated, so as a result type 9 is nonfunctional in Hexen maps.

 

In vanilla Hexen, while type 9 still exists and still increases the player's secretcount variable, this is useless since there is no end-of-level tallies, and none of the Hexen IWAD maps use this sector type.

 

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7 hours ago, printz said:

Mains hum? Cute. 

 

Well, European mains hum. In the US it'd be 60.

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Doom's intermission screen map code has an unused random animation mode - it's all coded up but not actually used in any of the animations which appear on the E1-E3 intermission screens. So in theory you could hack doom.exe to add something like flickering lights to an intermission screen.

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On 6/23/2018 at 9:28 PM, fraggle said:

Doom's intermission screen map code has an unused random animation mode - it's all coded up but not actually used in any of the animations which appear on the E1-E3 intermission screens. So in theory you could hack doom.exe to add something like flickering lights to an intermission screen.

Maybe they didn't use it because of some hardware/compatibility problems?

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If the cyberdemon will be assigned with tag 666 action (keendie) via Dehacked, and then will be killed by crusher, the trigger will not work. Usual ways to kill cyberdemon will activate this trigger. It's confirmed on Boom and BEX dehacked.

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It seems likely that's because the cyberdemon becomes the pool of blood before its allowed to call A_KeenDie, if you put it at the end of the death state. Does it work if you make it happen earlier?

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1 hour ago, InsanityBringer said:

It seems likely that's because the cyberdemon becomes the pool of blood before its allowed to call A_KeenDie, if you put it at the end of the death state. Does it work if you make it happen earlier?


Yeah that was my omission, but not the engine issue. I moved trigger right to death state and it's worked!

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Something I found out about a while ago, but have been finding more interesting uses for recently:

 

In standard Doom format, "floor raise to lowest ceiling" can be used to great effect in a multitude of ways, most obviously with insta-pop lowering floors and also giving some nice control over particular actions and/or (coordinated) multi-sector setups through dummy sectors. Being able to stack two totally different actions, floor raising and floor lowering, on one trigger has actually proven to be quite useful and combining this action with ceiling actions (though quite limited, are also aided by the obtuse usefulness of the sole ceiling raise action, though unfortunately a w1 it can also insta-pop ceilings lower; some extra floor actions on these dummy sectors can give the ceiling lower to floor functions some use) can achieve some interesting control over dummy sectors and whatever they may be tied to. Not sure if it may be as good as straight floor actions, though it seems to be better, if with an extra layer of convolution. That all said it would be interesting to make some more puzzles in doom format to utilize these actions more in-depth and see how creative of a setup I can make.

 

Still love the freedom of boom format for mechanics, but doom format is a lot more versatile than I had given it credit for, even after being in the community, playing pwads for a while now, and ironically building/collab'ing at least a couple maps in basic doom/heretic format. It's cool to learn something new, or new uses for old things, and I think that working under these limitations will help my future mapping to be both more controlled and more concise, even if under a more flexible format out-of-the-box.

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Obviously this is something I "knew" from playing, but until I started converting it to run on the PS1, I never realized Downtown features absolutely no former human enemies. You'd think a city-themed level would be teaming with them, but its opposition is entirely hellspawn.

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