Things about Doom you just found out

[jval]

18 hours ago, Linguica said:

doom / doom2.exe have a qwerty layout hardcoded into them for some reason. Is this some DOS / Watcom thing?

 

 

It appears in other executable files of the era compiled with watcom C as well (but not all), both lowercase & uppercase. Maybe a .lib linked to the exe...

 

E.g. rott.exe:

 

[kb1]

On 9/14/2018 at 9:36 AM, jval said:

 

It appears in other executable files of the era compiled with watcom C as well (but not all), both lowercase & uppercase. Maybe a .lib linked to the exe...

 

E.g. rott.exe:

 

Damn shame - the keyboard has its own processor, but they couldn't be bothered to include a lookup ROM to convert scancodes. Because of this, the OS (or even worse, the program) has to know about every keyboard layout out there. Too late now, though.

[spd7693]

I just replayed Map 31 of Memento Mori and noticed something that I never had before. Because it had never occurred. Usually when I enter the rednez-vous (correct me if wrong, I speak no french) point and the yellow key respectively, I stand at one place until I kill all the teleporting gunners. However, at some point a no-clip bug occurred and all monsters started going through the walls. I wasn't recording, so I can't show it off, but the bug happened. Has someone had something happen like that? 

[Gez]

3 hours ago, spd7693 said:

the rednez-vous (correct me if wrong, I speak no french)

 

"rendez-vous"

[Archvile Hunter]

3 hours ago, spd7693 said:

However, at some point a no-clip bug occurred and all monsters started going through the walls.

Sounds like the "All-Ghosts bug". Were you able to hurt the monsters or vice versa?

[Grazza]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:34 AM, PeterMoro said:

Icon of Sin ... has a line def that's completely unused.

You can reach it (and even try to "use" it) via a void glide.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Grazza

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

It is possible to crash ZDoom with a script like this:

script "Crashout" (void)
{
 while(True)
 {
  Autosave;
 }
}

I discovered this in the toymaker.wad while looking through it to figure out why and how it crashes ZDoom on command. This is very clever.

[spd7693]

3 hours ago, Archvile Hunter said:

Sounds like the "All-Ghosts bug". Were you able to hurt the monsters or vice versa?

 

 

I wasn't able to hurt the monsters, but didn't try if the rocket launcher would work. Monsters could hurt me (and killed me) only with their mellee attacks. The fireballs and the gunshots didn't hurt me. Also, I was going through the walls as well. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by spd7693

[kb1]

1 hour ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

It is possible to crash ZDoom with a script like this:

script "Crashout" (void)
{
 while(True)
 {
  Autosave;
 }
}

I discovered this in the toymaker.wad while looking through it to figure out why and how it crashes ZDoom on command. This is very clever.

Clever? Devious, maybe.

 

You can crash most programs with bad data. For Doom: WADs with bad pointers, recursive node data, negative-sized/huge textures, sounds with bad headers, etc., etc. It's much more difficult, and more clever (and more enjoyable) to make something that does not crash...

 

Regarding your example: Does the repeated autosave fill up the hard drive, or overwrite all previous autosaves? To me, it looks like a lock-up vs. a crash, unless each save is being queued, filling up a stack.

 

Theoretically (ideally) ZDoom should catch something like this. But, you can't really provide power, and simultaneously catch every possible stupid script construct. Arguably, if ZDoom does crash, then it is catching and stopping the bug.

A script like this can be considered to be on the level of malware, and rightly so.

 

1 hour ago, spd7693 said:

I wasn't able to hurt the monsters, but didn't try if the rocket launcher would work. Monsters could hurt me (and killed me) only with their mellee attacks. The fireballs and the gunshots didn't hurt me. Also, I was going through the walls as well. 

Yeah, all-ghosts bug. Cool, I didn't realize the player could clip as well. You know, the all-ghosts bug is almost a really cool, fun effect. It would be neat if, say, a wizard could cast a spell that turned nearby monsters into ghosts. (Hmmm, a neat WAD idea :)

 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

doesn't zdoom terminate the script after a few loops? While(True) alone is enough of a hazard anyway, write anything with no delays and the machine is dead.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

It's been a while since I've actually tested the script in question, so I can't say for sure how it behaves with other autosaves, but I can say it doesn't fill the hard-drive. ZDoom has a hard limit on the number of autosaves it can have, so it won't fill the hard-drive with them.

 

Pegg, it does terminate a script, once the number of actions reaches about two million. Two million autosaves would definitely crash the engine.

Quote

This is determined by counting the amount of actions called by the script and terminating if the amount reaches 2,000,000.

https://zdoom.org/wiki/ACS

[The_MártonJános]

On 9/6/2018 at 5:19 PM, elarmadillo3 said:

I wonder why they'd use some random, obviously unfinished texture like that.

I think I have an answer for you...
    

Left is all four DEM1_* flats put together, right is the texture MARBFACE (patch MWALL4_1). Also, comparison GIF:

Hard to guess which one was made earlier, but because the former seems to be the sketch for the latter to be detailed more later, I assume the order is flats, then texture.

My take on the point would be a quite trivial approach: the DEM1_* version was already present in Shareware Doom, while the walltexture debuted in the registered one. It's not hard to believe that when the development came to finish the first episode and then started constructing the second one did the texture artists find out how hideous the flat version looked up close and did an elaborate version of the wall, while decided to leave the flat as-is. (Which I personally wouldn't consider a bad choice, the different coloration on the eyes and teeth makes quite a character for it.)

Edited September 21, 2018 by Cell

[Dragonfly]

While I'm inclined to believe you - Here's something extra to consider: The FLAT version was done to convey less "3D depth", since it's on a flat floor. The depth perception of a texture is somewhat lost when it's not on the wall, and you wouldn't walk on a large & bumpy marble face in the first place. :)

[ukiro]

Also: the flat is drawn digitally in deluxe paint, the wall is a scanned drawing. This means the wall might have come first, and the flat is a “flattened” version made later, for the reasons Dragonfly points out. 

[TakenStew22]

A few days ago I found out by reading on the Doom Wiki that monsters will never attack Arch-viles because there is an exception in the source code that prevents other monsters from targeting them. Which sucks, because monster infighting helps me alot, and Arch-viles can be a real pain in the ass. This same problem goes with Pain Elementals aswell. The monsters will only attack the Lost Souls and not the actual key to the threat.

[Pegleg]

42 minutes ago, TakenStew22 said:

Which sucks, because monster infighting helps me alot, and Arch-viles can be a real pain in the ass.

I know that I've seen Arch-viles attack other monsters, but I think it was as retaliation for a monster that accidentally hit them while trying to hit you.

 

Your overall point is valid--arch-viles don't get targeted by other monsters intentionally. So, that makes them even more of a pain-in-the-neck to deal with than normal. But, I'm saying that I think it's possible to get arch-viles to take damage and infight, it just takes some maneuvering on your part to set it up. And a little luck. Neither of which helps assuage your "real pain in the ass" feelings.

[TakenStew22]

27 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

I know that I've seen Arch-viles attack other monsters, but I think it was as retaliation for a monster that accidentally hit them while trying to hit you.

 

Your overall point is valid--arch-viles don't get targeted by other monsters intentionally. So, that makes them even more of a pain-in-the-neck to deal with than normal. But, I'm saying that I think it's possible to get arch-viles to take damage and infight, it just takes some maneuvering on your part to set it up. And a little luck. Neither of which helps assuage your "real pain in the ass" feelings.

Yeah, I already knew that Arch-viles can attack their own teammates. But still, Said monsters will never attack the AV unless you use the "summon friend" cheat code.

[scifista42]

5 hours ago, Cell said:

    

Right is all four DEM1_* flats put together, left is the texture MARBFACE (patch MWALL4_1).

 

It's actually vice versa - the left picture shows the 4 flats and the right picture shows the texture.

[The_MártonJános]

42 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

 

It's actually vice versa - the left picture shows the 4 flats and the right picture shows the texture.

Fixed.

Could we please address issues like these in PM's whether next time would occur?

[Dragonfly]

2 hours ago, Cell said:

Could we please address issues like these in PM's whether next time would occur?

 

Why, embarrassed? Nothing here to worry about.

[kb1]

7 hours ago, TakenStew22 said:

Yeah, I already knew that Arch-viles can attack their own teammates. But still, Said monsters will never attack the AV unless you use the "summon friend" cheat code.

There's a consequence to being able to read the source code - you learn all the game's secrets. Before, it just seemed like Archviles were extra bad-ass, but now we know what's going on. It takes away some of the mystique.

[riderr3]

Plutonia MAP23:Tombstone doesn't have medikits. Just many stimpacks instead.

[BrassKnight]

The song used in Doom II's The Focus sounds like Zero Hour from Wolfenstein 3D.

 

[TakenStew22]

24 minutes ago, BrassKnight said:

The song used in Doom II's The Focus sounds like Zero Hour from Wolfenstein 3D.

 

Omg, it does!

[The_MártonJános]

On 9/21/2018 at 10:33 PM, Dragonfly said:

 

Why, embarrassed? Nothing here to worry about.

Err, okay s'pose.

...

Recently it raised my attention that the locations - more specifically, the way you progress - on the intermission maps aren't randomly scattered around, they're actually arranged from front to back (or vice versa for Episode 2).

[CountArchvile]

I found out random level generators were a thing and now I feel like my life is complete

[DynamiteKaitorn]

I feel like I am OBLIGUE'd to tell you a pun.

[CountArchvile]

16 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

I feel like I am OBLIGUE'd to tell you a pun.

HAAAAAAA, Good One actually made me chuckle

[Maser]

So I learned last night that apparently the Arch-Vile's attack is an area of effect attack and not a direct attack based on where it's facing.  I was playing the map, "Suburbs" and got an Arch-Vile and Cacodemon to fight.  I was just casually watching the fight when the Arch-Vile had it's back to me and attacked the Cacodemon and when the explosion happened both me and the Cacodemon took damage and flew up in the air. 

[Edward850]

11 hours ago, Maser said:

So I learned last night that apparently the Arch-Vile's attack is an area of effect attack and not a direct attack based on where it's facing.  I was playing the map, "Suburbs" and got an Arch-Vile and Cacodemon to fight.  I was just casually watching the fight when the Arch-Vile had it's back to me and attacked the Cacodemon and when the explosion happened both me and the Cacodemon took damage and flew up in the air. 

Not quite. Only one part of the Arch-vile attack is AoE, and that's the explosion that occurs from the attack. The blasting effect (the part that launches you in the air) only happens to the Arch-viles's target. The Arch-vile however can change targets at any point during its attack animation, and is capable of changing targets instantly.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Edward850