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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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17 hours ago, rdwpa said:

- This monster never warped in. Looking at the map in the editor, these monsters aren't connected by sound and teleport in with just scrolling effects, which causes the problem here: cacodemons (and flying monsters in general) aren't affected by conventional scrolling floors* in Boom format. Another potential problem is that these scroller setups don't loop, meaning that if a destination is blocked when a monster tries to warp in, that monster will never appear in the map. In casual singleplayer play that would be a very minor problem, but it could add some undesirable RNG to max routes, since there is some incentive to leave monsters alive: hell knights until the RL/SSG are available, for one thing. 

 

*I did a bit of research, and apparently you can use the deep water effect to move the cacodemon that way. 

I never knew deep water could be used to move flying monsters via scrollers; that's awesome!

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9 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This fucking BFG.

If you think that's well-hidden just wait until you find the soulsphere inside the wall!

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On 5/19/2017 at 6:34 PM, Fonze said:

^ heh

 

I just found out that Doom 2 came out before Heretic... I knew they came out the same year but for some reason I thought Heretic was a couple months before Doom 2... Well, guess I can no longer say "Heretic invented the revenant" kek. Also, that makes the Heretic-Doom1 comparison a bit more of a stretch >.<

Heretic was actually built from Doom 1.2, and it shares some of Doom 1.2 bugs. It was also the source for the faster monster sight code that ZDoom uses, though ZDoom fixed the "diagonal" bug which caused the code to keep tracing out much further than necessary. Carmack added a max sight limit of 64 flat squares, to work around that bug, instead of fixing it!

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Haha yea the secrets on circle o destruction are pretty silly compared to the other maps.

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51 minutes ago, kb1 said:

Heretic was actually built from Doom 1.2, and it shares some of Doom 1.2 bugs. It was also the source for the faster monster sight code that ZDoom uses, though ZDoom fixed the "diagonal" bug which caused the code to keep tracing out much further than necessary. Carmack added a max sight limit of 64 flat squares, to work around that bug, instead of fixing it!

What's the name of the function where the monster sight happens? I want to go and check that out. 

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DMX stands for Digital/Music/Effects. I found a few emails that were sent to Paul Radek, most of them complain about bugs, mostly with the GUS card. 

 

Quote

    From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
    Message-Id: <9407042222.AA04438@idcube.idsoftware.com>
    Received: by idromero.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X)
        id AA03153; Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:22:00 -0600
    Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:22:00 -0600
    To: pjr@hnv.com
    Subject: hmm
    Status: OR

 

    This may or may not be your bug, but the GUS I believe is the only
    one we've heard this for, and we know there's something funny w/
    the current GUS code.

 

        =-ddt->

 

    > Begin forwarded message:

    > From: "Michael John J. Ellis" <mikee@gwis.circ.gwu.edu>
    > Subject: bug report on 1.4 Beta
    > To: help@idsoftware.com
    > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 11:26:02 -0400 (EDT)
    > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
    > Content-Type: text
    > Content-Length: 629       


    > Hey there...

    > You folks have probably heard this a million times allready, but here goes:
    > (detailed scenario, may help you catch it...)

    > Deathmatch, new-rules.
    > 4 ppl, netware.

    > Was running around the green slob, and my "buddy" started shooting the
    > crap out of me with the chain-gun.

    > As I died laying in the slob, the chaingun kept going. It kept going and
    > going and going even after I got back to life.

    > After a couple of minutes I just COULDN'T stand it anymore and had to
    > quit... it was aweful :-)
 

 

This make me remember the time when I was playing Doom v1.2 and there were some random sounds that got played. A Imp would get alerted and I would hear the Spider Mastermind alert sound for a fraction of a second, though deformed in a way that it wasn't really recognizable. That was really strange and made Doom more scary... At least DMX works fine with GUS in Doom v1.9. It could have been worse, the sounds in Duke Nukem 3D play twice when using GUS. 

 

IRQs > 7 don't work, but the bug is caused by DOS4GW (the DOS extender). The Apogee Sound System (used in Duke3D and ROTT) was also affected. 


Full list of emails sent to Paul Radek by John Romero or Dave Taylor here:

 



From johnr@idcube.idsoftware.com Fri Jul  1 16:26:49 1994
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    id AA00572; Fri, 1 Jul 94 16:17:26 -0600
From: John Romero <johnr@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407012217.AA00572@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Received: by iddell2.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X)
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 16:17:55 -0600
Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100)
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100)
To: Paul Radek <pjr@hnv.com>, ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com
Subject: Bugs
Status: OR

Begin forwarded message:

To: romero@idsoftware.com
Subject: Still can't get sound effects to work with v1.4 on an MSB....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 11:35:11 -0400
From: Dave Wecker <wecker@crl.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

I'm still having a problem with using a Microsoft Sound Board. Music works
fine, but sound effects will ONLY work on the PC-Speaker. I've installed:

    DEVICE=C:\SNDSYS\WSSXLAT.EXE SBIO=220 IRQ=7 DMA=1 WAVE=7 LINEIN=7

in CONFIG.SYS and made the approprate selections in DOOM\SETUP:

    SOUND BLASTER, PORT=220, IRQ=7, DMA=1, MIX=7

I've looked everywhere in the news groups/FAQ's for info but have had no
luck... is there a magic incantation that I'm missing????

BTW:    I'm still trying to break away an OSF/Alpha-PC for you guys...

Best Regards,
____________________________________________________________________________
dave                                      ENET:   CRL::WECKER  WECKER@CRL
      Digital Equipment Corporation       CRL:    617/621-6699 DTN: 259-6699
      Cambridge Research Lab              FAX:    617/621-6650 DTN: 259-6650
      One Kendall Square, Bldg 700        INET:   wecker@crl.dec.com
      Cambridge, MA 02139                 PROJS:  IGOR, Multimedia Research
          http://www.crl.dec.com/crl/people/biographies/wecker.html

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should be taken
            as representative of my employer Digital Equipment Corporation.
____________________________________________________________________________


Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:07:01 -0500
From: Mike Surgeon <surgeon@vss.fsi.com>
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Subject: DOOM 1.4

Here are my observations on 1.4:

On my system (386SX and GUS) version 1.2 used to always lockup in E1M3 where
the stairway rises to get to the normal exit (not the secret one).

Version 1.4 doesn't lockup here, but a lot of awful sounds are produced.

The gunshot sounds don't appear to be synchronized to the gunshot graphics  
(hear
sounds and then see the graphics).

The sounds no longer sound clean, but sound scratchy (sound plus noise).

Mike Surgeon

Begin forwarded message:

From: bontchev@informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Doom 1.4 bug report
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 23:42:08 +0200 (MET DST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 8453      


Hello John!

Thanks again for the great game! Version 1.4 fixes a lot of the
problems I had with 1.2 (especially the "guy running in circles" bug).
However, there are still several bugs left. Too bad that I can't take
a look at the other two episodes; I know several map bugs there and
could help to fix them. My advice is that you don't release 1.5 on
July 1, but relase the patch to the commercial version instead, and
have them beta-tested by the net too.

Anyway, here goes my bug report. A few of the bugs I couldn't verify
myself - either because I don't have a soundcard (one student here who
has GUS has reported them), or because the new version does not allow
me to load custom-designed levels.

1) PAS16 sound is not in stereo. (Have not verified this.)

2) GUS sound effects are *much* worse than in 1.2. (Have not verified
this.)

3) The sound of raising stairs does not sound very well on a
SoundBlaster 16. (Have not verified this.)

4) LMPs recorded with version 1.2 do not run on 1.4. :-( Sigh. I kinda
expected it - the same happened when we switched from 1.1 to 1.2. Too
bad; now we have to scrap hundreds of kilobytes of amazing demos. Oh,
well, I guess this cannot be fixed - especially if you modify the maps
a bit and you have done that. Maybe you should mention this in the
README file.

5) Saved games from earlier versions crash the new version. The screen
just goes black and I have to reboot. Again, I expected something like
that - could you provide a conversion utility, or at least document
the incompatibility?

6) For some reason, chat macros 1 and 2 are always the same - seems
that one of them overwrites the other. This bug was present in 1.2; I
expected to see it fiexed.

7) Now the armour counter cannot exceed 200%. I suspect that this is
intentional, but I don't like it. Can't you return you the old way?
And while you are at it, can't you also remove the limit on the health
counter (199%)?

8) I see that you have removed the swastika. I was really
disappointed. Not because I particularly liked it, but because I was
thinking "Look, everybody is bashing id for that swastika, but they
don't care! What guys!". Sigh... I don't insist on having it back, but
I feel disappointed.

9) Projectiles now do not trigger linedefs any more. Yes, I know that
this is intentional and documented, but I don't like it. There is a
really amazing custom PWAD around (SCREAM.WAD; I can send it to you on
request), which includes a nice puzzle - a cage closes around you, and
you have to fire a rocket (all you have is a rocket launcher and a
pistol) towards a particular direction, in order to be able to escape.
Now this PWAD won't work any more. Can't you put this feature back?

10) I played a cooperative multi-player game with a colleague,
simultaneously doing a recording. I mostly wanted to see whether I can
do it, because of the problems in this area with version 1.2. The
level was E1M8. During the game, we played for too long and the LMP
buffer was exchausted (yes, I know that I can specify a larger buffer,
but I forgot to do it). Doom dropped to DOS, with the following
message on *one* of the machines: W_CacheLumpNUM:1266 >= numlumps.
However, the LMPs were created successfully. Now, the problem is to
play them. The file created on the other machine plays perfectly. The
file created on the machine that displayed the error message causes
Doom to display the same error message when one tries to play that
file. I saved both files; do you need a copy of them?

11) Speaking about multi-player LMPs, could you make it possible to
record them on one of the machines only? As it is now, each machine
has to do the recording, which is a bit annoying. (If only one of the
machines is doing the recording, the game aborts soon after the first
moves, with a consistency failure.)

12) Version 1.2 had a problem when you have a sector with both floor
and ceiling textures set to F_SKY. Is it fixed in 1.4? I can't check
it, because the -file option does not work.

13) With version 1.2, when you load a HUGE PWAD, and try to save the
game, the game crashes - probably because the size of the savegame
buffer is exceeded. Have you done something about this? Any capability
to increase the size of the savegame buffer - or at least to document
its size? Again, I cannot check this, because I am unable to load
external PWADs.

14) In version 1.2, when you had more than 64 Things in sight, some of
them were disappearing (at random) and then reappearing. Anything done
about this in 1.4? Again - I cannot check it.

15) In version 1.2, when you had too many linedefs in the line of
sight, you got horrible video effects (we call them Hall of Mirrors).
Anything done to fix this?

16) You mentioned that you have fixed "microscopic map bugs". Well,
some time ago I mailed a list of them to Sandy. I saw that several of
them are *not* fixed in Episode 1, version 1.4. Here is a list of them
again. I am aware that your level editor does not display such things
like linedef numbers and sector numbers. I'll try to describe where
the bugs are, but the best solution would be for you to get any of the
available level editors (I recommend DEU) - they all can display this
information.

E1M2:

Line 134, secondary Sidedef 151 is missing an Upper texture. This is
the T-like sector where the green armor is.

Line 574, secondary Sidedef 727 is missing an Upper texture. In fact,
the whole Sector 187 must be removed. This is in front of the door
that leads to the chainsaw and which you have to shoot in order to
make it open.

E1M3:

Sector 7 is not closed! You must join vertexes 764 and 771. This is
the southwest corner of the level near the regular (non-secret) exit,
where there are a lot of former humans and sergeants.

E1M4:

Linedefs 608 and 609 have a Sector Tag, but their type is set to
Normal (i.e., they don't trigger anything). This is to the north of
the circular building with the four doors, imps, chain gun and the
blue keycard.

Linedef 321, primary Sidedef 345 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 327, primary Sidedef 353 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 338, primary Sidedef 369 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 346, primary Sidedef 379 is missing a Lower texture.

Those are on the back side of each of the four doors of the circular
building mentioned above.

Linedef 693, secondary Sidedef 872 is missing an Upper texture. This
is at the beggining of the corridor that begins from the southeast
corner of that same circular building.

E1M7:

Linedef 450, secondary Sidedef 573 is missing an upper texture. In
fact, the whole Sector 37 should be removed. This is the east one of
the two L-like constructs in the "upper floor" behind the yellow door.

Linedef 744, secondary Sidedef 938 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 745, secondary Sidedef 940 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 746, secondary Sidedef 942 is missing a Lower texture.
Linedef 747, secondary Sidedef 944 is missing a Lower texture.

Those lines are around the square pyramid that contains the chainsaw.

E1M8:

I see that you have added a new room in one of the cages with Barons,
with a switch that lowers the lift and allows the player to return to
the beginning of the level. Maybe you should have marked this room as
Secret.

The walls that surround the big courtyard after the internal walls
drop down (after you kill the Barons) do not display on the map. It
might be intentional, but it is not good, because you can "see" those
walls. I can understand why the final room is not displayed, but those
walls should be.

Also, one all the levels there are a lot of unnecessary textures, but
the level editor I am using does not allow me to find them easily, so
I am unable to report them. I have another editor, which can report
them, but it requires the registered version. (The one I am using at
least allows me to *view* - if not to modify - the levels of the
shareware version.)

If you have any questions regarding the bugs I reported above, or need
any further clarifications, do not hesistate to contact me. I'll do my
best to help you improve further this awesome game.

Regards,
Vesselin
-- 

Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.3 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de        22527 Hamburg, Germany

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 18:18 EDT
From: tbeam@thor.tjhsst.edu (Tyler Beam)
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Subject: Doom 1.4

    Hi!  I have a few complaints about Doom 1.4:
    Sometimes during play in e1m1 (only this level for some reason) I
experience sound problems.  Either the music volume drops suddenly, or random
game sounds get played (usually the chainsaw :) ).
    Another thing (not really a bug I guess) is that the sound of stairs
going up is funny.  Maybe its something having to do with the stereo effect,
but it's disconcerting.  Like the sound is being sourced from the leading edge
of the rising stairs.  It's okay; but it just sounds weird.
    Hope this helps... if you even get to read it...
    Bye!

X-Account: 1007
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 09:58:22 BST
From: wturner@acorn.co.uk (William Turner)
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Subject: [Bug] 3 bugs in Doom 1.4

Hi John!

Do I get a prize for spotting a bug in Doom 1.4
in the quickest time? As soon as I unzipped it,
I ran setup, configured it to GUS, 8ch, and then
selected keyboard-mouse controls. I then tried
to redefine the right button as 'move forward'.
An errorbox popped up saying 'mouse not present',
and the setup hung. Not completely, as Ctrl-Alt-
Delete worked.

Also, I noticed that the GUS sound effects are much
more tinny than under 1.2, as if the high frequencies
are being boosted. Is this a bug, or just changed
preference on iD's part?

One last bug (think yourself lucky, I'd be grateful
for only 3 bugs :-), the GUS sound now has the 

infamous clicks!

Anyway, that's all (with these problems I went back
to playing 1.2). On a more positive note, it is
noticeably faster than 1.2, although much of this
speedup may be due to the GUS being used better?

William
--------------------------+------------------------+
| Software Division       |    Acorn Computers Ltd,|
|                         |    Cambridge,          |
| wturner@acorn.co.uk     |    ENGLAND             |
+-------------------------+------------------------+

Begin forwarded message:

From: keen@ironwood.cray.com (Matthew Keen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 08:53:59 +0600
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Subject: Doom 1.4 quirk... :-)
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 327

You may have already heard this from other Doom fans, but it seems that
1.4 now repeats sound effects. I have a Compaq 486SX/25 4MB RAM and a 

SB16 w/o ASP and and MPU-401 card. When you open a door it sounds like
it opens twice. The General MIDI support seems MUCH improved though, no more
sustaining guitars!! Thanks.


Matt

Begin forwarded message:

From: brianm@netcom.com (Brian Morgan)
Subject: doom
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 12:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1397      


John (are you really reading all this mail!??),

    It looks like the SB support is thrashed in V1.4.  I am
using a v1.5 card and I can get music but no digi.  Other
than that, we havent had any problems here (and we have played
just a bit....)
    Anyway, heres something from my mailbox that you might
find amusing:  (Steve is our VP of R&D here at Spectrum HoloByte)


[9] From: Steve Weinstein 4/1/94 9:30AM (836 bytes: 1 ln)
To mailing list: #Cartridge, #Doc Services, #NED, #Programmers, #R&D Management
  #SimGroup, #ST Disk, #Testing, #VR, #Tool
Subject: DOOM
------------------------------- Message Contents ------------------------------

Text item  1: Text_1
     

     To:        R&D
     

     I unfortunately have tried in my own way to get the point across that 

     DOOM is interfering with many people's jobs.  I guess my subtle 

     attempts have fallen on deaf ears.  Therefore, I unfortunately have to 

     take a more drastic step.
     

     

     Starting TODAY, the playing of DOOM is banned between the hours of 

     7:00am to 8:00pm.
     

     I am sorry, but I cannot think of any other solution.
     


     /stevew

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                           - Brian

ps.  we can only hope that Tetris sucked as much of your time as
     Doom has sucked of ours.

Begin forwarded message:

X-Msmail-Message-Id:  9FC64B74
X-Msmail-Conversation-Id:  9FC64B74
From: Shawn Gordon <shawng@microsoft.com>
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Date: Fri,  1 Jul 94 14:51:19 TZ
Subject: Doom 1.4

Hi John!  Doom is a great game and I just downloaded the 1.4 Beta from 

the Internet today and I have a Sound Blaster Pro set at defaults (220 

hex, IRQ7, and DMA 1) and when I set Doom to play 8 channels, I seem to 

get a strange echoing when any sound is played.  But if I turn the 

sounds down to 4, it seems to work ok.  Now am I just confused and the 

SBPro just can't handle that many channels at once or do I need to set 

to a different IRQ?  Just thought I would ask you for the help.  Thanks 

in advance.  You can reply straight back to me if you would like.  Talk 

at you later.  :)

Shawn


Begin forwarded message:

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 22:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Todd Horch <thorch@infinet.com>
Subject: Doom 1.4 bugs
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I know you've probably already heard these bugs, but just in case:

1.  SB16 sounds lousy.  Sounds are muffled, rising staircases have multiple
    volume levels as the sectors rise.  This may be due to use of more than
    4 mixed sounds.  


Here's my system setup, in case you need the info:

i486DX2-50, 4MB RAM, MouseSystems Mouse & Driver, Sound Blaster 16 ASP

That should be all pertinent information.  If you need more info to help
you work these out, just E-Mail me.  I'm glad to make my small contribution
to the development of such a wonderful game.

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd Horch          | I just don't know how much more of |
| thorch@infinet.com  | this I can take.                   |
| fvhu68a@prodigy.com |             - "Split Second"       |
+----------------------------------------------------------+


Begin forwarded message:

From: MarkMcW@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Sender: "MarkMcW" <MarkMcW@aol.com>
To: romero@idsoftware.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 22:27:04 EDT
Subject: DOOM v1.4 bugs

Hello,

I just tried DOOM v1.4 after downloading it from the internet site. It looks
good except for two problems. First it runs quite a bit slower than v1.2, and
the sound seems very "tinny" like there is two much treble. I have a
486DX2/50 with 8 MB RAM, DOS 6.2, Stacker 3.1, and a Gravis UltraSound. I had
none of the above problems with DOOM v1.2 Thanks for your help. And thank you
for making such an excellent game!

-Mark

Begin forwarded message:

To: romero@idsoftware.com
Cc: pieterh@sci.kun.nl
Subject: DOOM v1.4 bug report
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 13:06:30 +0200
From: pieterh@sci.kun.nl


Last night I tried the DOOM v1.4 beta you uploaded to infant2.

I'm not sure if it's really a bug, but the quality of the sound
effects on my Gravis Ultrasound (hardware rev. 3.4) seems to have
decreased considerably to compared to DOOM v1.2.  The sounds are
somewhat harsh, noisy and distorted.  The music sounds fine.

Reconfiguring DOOM to use my SoundBlaster 2.0 improved sound FX
quality considerably (but of course the music sux :^)

A minor point is that the documentation has references to DOOM
v1.2 all over the place.  I suppose you'll have that cleaned up
for v1.5?  It made me wonder if it was a legitimate release.

If you need more details, feel free to e-mail me.

 - Peter Herweijer
   pieterh@sci.kun.nl


From johnr@idcube.idsoftware.com Fri Jul  1 17:26:36 1994
Received: from iddell2 by idcube.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0M)
    id AA00732; Fri, 1 Jul 94 17:17:35 -0600
From: John Romero <johnr@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407012317.AA00732@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Received: by iddell2.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X)
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Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100)
To: ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com, Paul Radek <pjr@hnv.com>
Subject: Bug (sort of) in Doom 1.4
Status: OR

From ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com Fri Jul  1 20:58:58 1994
Received: from idromero by idcube.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0M)
    id AA01076; Fri, 1 Jul 94 20:49:57 -0600
From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
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    id AA01164; Fri, 1 Jul 94 20:50:23 -0600
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 20:50:23 -0600
To: pjr@hnv.com
Subject: interesting
Status: OR

Shawn was playing the end of the first repeat, there was a pause
in the music.  He's using a sound canvas.  Don't think it's the
song because the end of the first time around.

    =-ddt->


From ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com Tue Jul  5 12:52:03 1994
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    id AA05919; Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:41:15 -0600
From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407051841.AA05919@idcube.idsoftware.com>
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    id AA03888; Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:41:40 -0600
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:41:40 -0600
To: pjr@hnv.com
Subject: bug
Status: OR

Article 38269 (161 more) in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action:
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 1994 17:59:00 +0200
From: Patrick_Dondl@tonwerk2.fido.de (Patrick Dondl)
Subject: DOOM 1.4 beta  SB-Sound lock.
Organization: Fido.DE domain gateway (IN e.V.)
Lines: 9
X-Gateway: FIDOGATE 3.7.1
X-FTN-Origin: (242:8001/1.666)
X-FTN-Tearline: GoldED 2.41
X-FTN-Path: 8001/1 0 1000/1

Hello...

I've got a problem with DOOM 1.4 and SB-Sound. Just after the " " message the
game locks up. I experience the same thing with the 1.1 version of Raptor,
which seems to use the same F/X engine. It all happens with and without QEMM.
(SB 1.5, Irq 5, A 220, D1, no problems anywhere else.)

the syndicate


From ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com Tue Jul  5 13:14:39 1994
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    id AA04390; Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:10:28 -0600
From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407042210.AA04390@idcube.idsoftware.com>
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    id AA06129; Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:09:50 -0600
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:09:50 -0600
To: pjr@hnv.com
Subject: another tinnyness thing
Status: OR

> Begin forwarded message:

> From: mwh5795@cs.rit.edu (Michael W Houwers)
> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 13:17:31 -0400
> To: help@idsoftware.com
> Subject: doom 1.4 issue


> 'lo.  i'm sure you have enough other questions/comments on doom 1.4, but
> i'll throw in my 2 cents anyways.

> the sound effects sound quite different from v1.2. i have a GUS with 1M,
> and the sounds in v1.4 sound much more "tinny" than in v1.2, and there
> sounds to be a high-pitched sustain-like noise after some sounds, most
> notably the pistol shot sound.

> normally, i wouldn't take issue with sound differences, but the "tinniness"
> of the new sounds is somewhat irritating.  if i can be of any more help,
> please let me know.  and congratulations on an outstanding game, very 

> exciting and highly (re)playable.  kudos!

> thanks,
> mike houwers

> mwh5795@cs.rit.edu


From ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com Tue Jul  5 13:15:09 1994
Received: from idromero by idcube.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0M)
    id AA04438; Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:22:31 -0600
From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407042222.AA04438@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Received: by idromero.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X)
    id AA03153; Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:22:00 -0600
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 16:22:00 -0600
To: pjr@hnv.com
Subject: hmm
Status: OR

This may or may not be your bug, but the GUS I believe is the only
one we've heard this for, and we know there's something funny w/
the current GUS code.

    =-ddt->

> Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Michael John J. Ellis" <mikee@gwis.circ.gwu.edu>
> Subject: bug report on 1.4 Beta
> To: help@idsoftware.com
> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 11:26:02 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
> Content-Type: text
> Content-Length: 629       


> Hey there...

> You folks have probably heard this a million times allready, but here goes:
> (detailed scenario, may help you catch it...)

> Deathmatch, new-rules.
> 4 ppl, netware.

> Was running around the green slob, and my "buddy" started shooting the
> crap out of me with the chain-gun.

> As I died laying in the slob, the chaingun kept going. It kept going and
> going and going even after I got back to life.

> After a couple of minutes I just COULDN'T stand it anymore and had to
> quit... it was aweful :-)

> ---

> Machine:    Dell 486 DX/2 50:   16 MB ram
>         Gus REV 3.7 with 1 MB ram.

> Hope this helps out. Keep up the good work,


>     MikeE

From ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com Tue Jul  5 13:15:34 1994
Received: from idromero by idcube.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0M)
    id AA04184; Mon, 4 Jul 94 14:37:25 -0600
From: David Taylor <ddt@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Message-Id: <9407042037.AA04184@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Received: by idromero.idsoftware.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0X)
    id AA03050; Mon, 4 Jul 94 14:36:55 -0600
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 14:36:55 -0600
To: pjr@hnv.com
Subject: random bug you won't have fun finding.
Status: OR

> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 00:19:03 PDT
> From: James Duncan Fairweather <jamesdf@unixg.ubc.ca>
> To: johnc@idcube.idsoftware.com (John Carmack)
> Subject: Re: "hooks" in the new DOOM exe [id]
> Newsgroups: alt.games.doom
> Organization: University of British Columbia
> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

> I found a sound but in DOOM 1.4, wanna hear about it?  Probably not, but 

> I'm going to tell you anyway.  BTW, I'm a professional game tester with 

> Electronic Arts, so hopefully this bug report will be a cut above most of 

> the "bug reports" I see posted publicly.

> Bug found in DOOM 1.4 June 30/94:
> Computer: 486DX33, ISA bus, 8 megs ram, PAS-16 sound card.
> Using IRQ 5, DMA 3.  Revision D of sound card, mvsound.sys 3.24
> DOOM setup: one player, PAS sound (3 digital channels) , PAS
> music, keyboard and MS mouse to control player
> The bug:
> On mission 5, at the point just beyond the yellow key-card door, to
> the right, and at the top of the secret elevator.  I had just gone
> into the area where the teleportal is, then come back out to toast
> the baddies.  As the elevator began moving down, the sound became a
> high-pitched whine with some buzzing.  This persisted for about 10
> seconds.  The computer didn't lock up, I continued to play as if
> nothing was wrong.  I could still hear other digitized sound.  One
> of the three channels may have gotten messed up for a few seconds.
> I have never had this bug with DOOM 1.2.  I tried twice to recreate it, 

> without success.  Hope you can nail it!

>     James


 

 

 

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6 hours ago, axdoomer said:

What's the name of the function where the monster sight happens? I want to go and check that out. 

I'm not in front of the source now, and my memory sucks. P_CheckSight?? But I'm pretty sure the module name is p_sight.c.

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Considering the previously unreleased extra rotations for the player and zombies, the Imp is the only monster that doesn't have an official full 8 directional rotations. I always had it in my mind that only very few monsters had all 8 rotations, but it has just dawned on me that most of the ones that don't are symmetrical in design, so having all 8 would be pointless. I don't know how that went over my head for so long.

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I wonder if Doom 64 could have had more room for additional enemies if they had forgone full rotations for every monster except the cyberdemon, since it's the only asymmetrically designed enemy.

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If they had used the biggest sized cartridge available despite how expensive it would've been then they probably could've added the remaining monsters.

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7 hours ago, HorrorMovieGuy said:

the Imp is the only monster that doesn't have an official full 8 directional rotations.

The Imp's full 8-sided rotation sprites for its attack frames are included in the 0.5 alpha.

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4 hours ago, Averagewalrus23.9 said:

Would this of been big enough?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

What I mean is Doom 64 used a 64 MBit cartridge, cartridge sizes for the N64 ranged from 32 MBit to 512 MBit.

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18 hours ago, kb1 said:

I'm not in front of the source now, and my memory sucks. P_CheckSight?? But I'm pretty sure the module name is p_sight.c.

Thanks. Your memory doesn't suck. 

 

Doom v1.2 used the blockmap to trace the line of sight, meanwhile Doom v1.9 uses the BSP in a way to find which subsectors the "trace" goes into. I have read that going through the BSP nodes is one of the slowest things in the engine. 

They probably have changed it since the v1.2 code could cause a intercept overflow causing the all-ghost bug. However, the newer code has a small bug that causes the monsters to see the player through walls.

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I just found out that a thing's TID used in ACS is the same number as the tag you give it in your map editor. This should be explicitly explained in the ZDoom wiki. It is natural for somebody new to ACS to assume that they are different because they are named differently. Here I was struggling to find out how to give a thing a TID. I finally found out by searching these forums. I saw in the search results that helpful people have had to explain this over and over, which wouldn't be needed if it were explained in the wiki that a thing's TID and tag were the same.

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Thank you, Gez. You're one of the people that I see answering a lot of questions in these forums. I like people like you.

 

OK, so the information is there, but tucked away in a couple obscure pages. I can't find any way to navigate to either of those pages from the ACS article. Any page that mentions a TID should have the first reference be a link to the TID page, and likewise for references to a Tag. Without that bit of information, so many possibilities are out of reach. Let's try to ensure that nobody else has to go through this confusion.

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There are a lot of pages that mention TID and tag, and I have mostly focused on the action specials and action functions page. Mostly I tried to make it so that searching a keyword would yield useful results, creating a ton of redirects for alternate names when needed.

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5 minutes ago, Gez said:

There are a lot of pages that mention TID and tag, and I have mostly focused on the action specials and action functions page. Mostly I tried to make it so that searching a keyword would yield useful results, creating a ton of redirects for alternate names when needed.

That is kind of what I meant: there should be a lot of pages that link to those pages. In hindsight, I should have searched for TID, but I was trying to navigate to the information I sought.

 

I don't know much about wiki editing, so maybe what I suggest would be really easy to do, or maybe it would be very tedious. Wiki pages have lots of links to other wiki pages, and I have (perhaps unwisely) grown accustomed to using those links as my primary way to find stuff.

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On 5/27/2017 at 7:12 PM, axdoomer said:

Thanks. Your memory doesn't suck. 

 

Doom v1.2 used the blockmap to trace the line of sight, meanwhile Doom v1.9 uses the BSP in a way to find which subsectors the "trace" goes into. I have read that going through the BSP nodes is one of the slowest things in the engine. 

They probably have changed it since the v1.2 code could cause a intercept overflow causing the all-ghost bug. However, the newer code has a small bug that causes the monsters to see the player through walls.

The blockmap code had a bug that caused the trace to fail to terminate. Carmack put a bailout value in there just because of this. It occurred when a trace went exactly diagonal through the edges of blocks, making it step right over the target (I think). The slowness of the new sight method can be mitigated with the REJECT map. It's not *that* slow, unless there's 10,000 monsters looking for the player. And *that* is mitigated by placing sight check code into 10-tic frames to reduce the amount of sight-checking. KBDoom switches between 3 sight-check methods dynamically, using a fixed version of the faster sight check when not emulating old demos, the unfixed version for <= 1.2 demos, and the vanilla BSP version for old demos > 1.2. Similarly, PrBoom+ switches to the original sight check when emulating <= 1.2 demos.

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1 hour ago, nukeykt said:

Early versions of Doom setup use library written by Paul Radek to draw windows.

Impressive! How did you come to this conclusion? 

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2 hours ago, nukeykt said:

Early versions of Doom setup use library written by Paul Radek to draw windows.

Has this something to do with the darker blue they ditched and the beeps they added? I always wondered why they felt the need to change that?

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2 hours ago, nukeykt said:

Early versions of Doom setup use library written by Paul Radek to draw windows.

What "windows" is this talk even about?

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