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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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1 minute ago, segfault said:

Yeah this is all true. Now that I'm actually paying attention I'm learning a lot about how the monsters work and how they interact with encounters.

 

Awesome. That will help you, both as a player and as a mapper.

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4 minutes ago, segfault said:

Now that I'm actually paying attention I'm learning a lot about how the monsters work and how they interact with encounters.

If you value your time and wanna learn the fast but hard way: Play slaughtermaps

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3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you value your time and wanna learn the fast but hard way: Play slaughtermaps

 

Depending on your level of skill, that can be the very hard (and very frustrating) way.

 

But yes, slaughtermaps (at least, well-made ones) will force you to understand the array of enemies and how best to handle them.

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Found out by accident a walkthrough of the early version of the Doom 2 maps. I know Sandy said at some point that he's disappointed by the fact that they "made the game too easy for casuals", and based on what I've seen in MAP03, well, indeed, in comparison the final product is really watered down. Unless inaccuracies are present, there used to be Arachnotrons, Arch-Viles, and Barons in the level lol.

 

Also realized that I completely forgot that they used translucency in PSX Doom, not the same PC effect. I know, Specters were semi-transparent, obviously, but I missed the partial invisibily effect, oops.

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I always wondered when I played Doom 95, there were two playable .exe files. One for Doom's episodes, and one with only Episode 1. 

 

That was my lesson about what Shareware is. 

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While looking at the Doom wiki entry on barrels, I found these tidbits:

  • There are different numbers of barrels in Knee Deep in the Dead depending on the difficulty (UV and NM have 2 more than HMP, which has 2 more than ITYD and HNTR).
    • In case you're wondering, E1M3 and E1M6 are the maps that lead to the difference. (I haven't confirmed this, but why would someone make up numbers?)
  • John Romero evidently liked barrels because there are over 200 in KDITD, but just over 30 in E2 and E3 combined.

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I suppose it is logical to put more barrels in E1 since you don't get much in the way of big weapons. In the later episodes you are more capable of blasting enemies out of the way by direct means, and accidental barrel explosions are more likely to be a hindrance to the player.

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Also barrels thematically make more sense in UAC facilities than in Hell.

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The boundary zone of a candle is way bigger than that of a... tree. Just why? xD

 

candlee1cdb.jpg

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15 hours ago, Pegleg said:
    • In case you're wondering, E1M3 and E1M6 are the maps that lead to the difference. (I haven't confirmed this, but why would someone make up numbers?) 

 

Just checked that. On E1M3 there are two barrels in the big room leading to secret exit that don't exist on HNTR and ITYTD. On E1M6 there are two extra barrels in the last room before exit that only exist on UV and above.

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7 hours ago, elend said:

The boundary zone of a candle is way bigger than that of a... tree. Just why? xD

 

candlee1cdb.jpg

The tree is solid and needs a definite collision detection box, while the candle doesn't.

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On 8/10/2018 at 8:59 AM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

I recently found out Map 11 of TNT [ Storage Facility ] uses round about 90 different side-def textures... Jesus >_>

Things like this really put into perspective how limited the console ports of Doom were. At the same time, did they really need to use that many unique textures?

 

Anyways, I've been tinkering with Doom 64 and just noticed that its switches are actually placed slightly in front of the wall they're assigned to. I guess they're a type of thing in this engine? I always assumed they were just a composite texture.

 

DkVJlQbVsAAMgnb.jpg:large

 

DkVJmAhUwAA4NWV.jpg:large

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What @Gez told me here.

 

Somehow, after all this time I completely forgot about that.

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The Nintendo 64 didn't have a lot of texture memory, so they probably didn't have enough space for a composite switch texture. If you had two polygons overlapping on the same plane it would show z-fighting, so they could either split the wall into multiple sections or move the switch in front of the wall. Moving it in front of the wall uses fewer polygons, so that may have been why they did it that way.

 

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Half Life's engine is indirectly related to Doom's. When entertaining ideas for a new map I looked into Cry of Fear's texture file system, which incidentally uses a .wad file format to store textures. They can be viewed in Slade and converted into Doom format. 

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17 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

Half Life's engine is indirectly related to Doom's. When entertaining ideas for a new map I looked into Cry of Fear's texture file system, which incidentally uses a .wad file format to store textures. They can be viewed in Slade and converted into Doom format. 

GoldSrc is actually based on the Quake engine, which used .wads and .paks. It's possible to open the various .pak files, and find wads stored within using an editor like Wally and edit them directly.

I learned this during my (short-lived) time doing rudimentary HL1 modding.

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45 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

Half Life's engine is indirectly related to Doom's. When entertaining ideas for a new map I looked into Cry of Fear's texture file system, which incidentally uses a .wad file format to store textures. They can be viewed in Slade and converted into Doom format. 

Do you have any screenshots of your work? I'm intrigued.

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2 hours ago, Ex Oblivione said:

Do you have any screenshots of your work? I'm intrigued.

here's some extremely beta shots of what little bit I've got so far, as of now I'm just trying to figure out how to work with the textures, it's so odd seeing them outside of the game x3

Screenshot_Doom_20180811_205407.png

Screenshot_Doom_20180811_205413.png

Screenshot_Doom_20180811_205422.png

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12 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

here's some extremely beta shots of what little bit I've got so far, as of now I'm just trying to figure out how to work with the textures, it's so odd seeing them outside of the game x3

That looks really good! It is surreal seeing them outside of their intended game, but it works. I look forward to what comes next.

 

Thanks for sharing!

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1 hour ago, DMPhobos said:

For some reason E1M3 shows up glitched on doom builder 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

XxI94Vq.png

TfHPCRv.jpg

Wonder why

 

Southern line is unconnected.

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Doom 64 Lost Souls are so aggressive that you can't really set up a practical trap room where they can see the player before being released. They'll just decimate each other. Even Pain Elementals often die to their spawned Souls.

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32 minutes ago, Dragonsbrethren said:

Doom 64 Lost Souls are so aggressive that you can't really set up a practical trap room where they can see the player before being released. They'll just decimate each other. Even Pain Elementals often die to their spawned Souls.

 

Lost Souls and especially PEs are more dangerous in D64 than in all the other games. If the Lost Souls can't spawn (not enough space for instance) they'll inflict massive amounts of damage to anything nearby, including the player. Even upon death their blast (or the Lost Souls it spawns but vanish immediately) inflict damage. I've managed to die a few times from their explosion in my last playthrough, which can damage or kill you even through thinner walls.

 

E: I actually decided to make a clip from a streaming session of mine to show how dangerous they are in this game, as I had managed to die a few times from their explosion. Shown below: A Pain Elemental killing me through a wall due to the damage inflicted by the Lost Souls that could not spawn, as the room containing the PEs is too tight:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Lost Souls on the other hand are more aggressive but much less tanky, which means they're much easier to kill, yet they're also a bigger threat than usual in larger numbers.

Edited by Agent6

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15 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

 

Lost Souls and especially PEs are more dangerous in D64 than in all the other games. If the Lost Souls can't spawn (not enough space for instance) they'll inflict massive amounts of damage to anything nearby, including the player. Even upon death their blast (or the Lost Souls it spawns but vanish immediately) inflict damage. I've managed to die a few times from their explosion in my last playthrough, which can damage or kill you even through thinner walls.

 

Lost Souls are more aggressive but much less tanky, which means they're much easier to kill, yet they're also a bigger threat than usual in larger numbers.

 

Whoever thought that the "rebalancing" was a good idea can go to hell.

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15 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Whoever thought that the "rebalancing" was a good idea can go to hell.

 

Nah, to be honest I actually like what they did with both of them in D64, at least in the levels they're featured in. I do imagine them being a real headache under other circumstances, more so than their classic counterpart, but they're alright most of the time. They're a big threat on In The Void as that (secret) level features plenty of PEs.

 

As I said they're surely dangerous but also easy to deal with if you're careful, especially the Lost Souls which are much weaker, and your weapons more devastating. Lost Souls really are more bearable in D64 from my POV. The PE itself is the one who's the problem in this game, as it can kill you in a matter of moments if it catches you off guard, something you can see in the clip I added to that post just now. I completely forgot they're different in that game, and they made sure to remind me of that.

Edited by Agent6

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So that's what inspired all the explosive tiny lost souls that oneshot people in mods like hard doom. Didn't fight the ones in D64 but the other ones are enough to decide that stuff sucks. especially going from 100 to 0 after a hard segment to a random lost soul.

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@Agent6 Probably part of my hate towards them comes from the fact that the last time I played Doom 64 was with a controller, and the damn things didn't give enough time to aim.

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In Rylayeh, despite the .txt file saying the minimum requirement is a limit removing port, a lot of pickups in the first map (and presumably others) will float next to ledges they're supposed to be far below in anything too faithful to Vanilla. This happened with Crispy, PrBoom+ at complevel 3 and 4, and Eternity with the -vanilla parameter. GZDoom had them where they were supposed to be despite me setting compatibility to "Doom (strict)" before starting the game.

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