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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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On 8/9/2018 at 2:28 PM, Pegleg said:

But yes, slaughtermaps (at least, well-made ones) will force you to understand the array of enemies and how best to handle them.

How to best handle them?

 

 

 

 

Play with ROK.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, NaZa said:

I think the computer panels in MAP02 of Doom II take the cake. 

I guess missalignments of computer panels are either tolerated or ignored by most players, in Doom 1 most rooms and mazes with computer panel textures all have missalignments.

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34 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

lol, no! I don't think it would do me any good anyway. Just had it open in a browser tab, so I decided to search the page for "42". :-P

 

Not like it is possible to keep up with beside in TAS runs haha.

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29 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

I guess missalignments of computer panels are either tolerated or ignored by most players, in Doom 1 most rooms and mazes with computer panel textures all have missalignments.

 

Those misalignment issues would be something new about Doom I just discovered. They're probably not easily noticed because I swear I never noticed them myself while playing in any Doom game, only in various PWADs :v .

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Once you do notice the MAP02 misalignment it just hurts.

doom00.png

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Agent6 said:

 

Those misalignment issues would be something new about Doom I just discovered. They're probably not easily noticed because I swear I never noticed them myself while playing in any Doom game, only in various PWADs :v .

You are right, they are hard to notice, because of the low brightness of some levels, like E1M2 computer maze, and most players doesn't care much about missalignments unless they really get in the way, like COMPTALL missalignment in @NaZa's screenshot of Doom II MAP 02. 

 

E1M2:

5IFqeDT.png

 

E1M3:

PCL1fEe.png

 

E1M6:

sLfeQzw.png

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NaZa said:

 

Once you do notice the MAP02 misalignment it just hurts.

 

doom00.png

 

 

4 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

 

E1M6:

 

sLfeQzw.png

 

 

*pain intensifies*

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Posted (edited)

Honestly the way the computers are done is extremely consistent. They were just reusing the same texture to get more varied computers. Same with many other wall textures. Example that feels horrible :

Spoiler

 Screenshot_Doom_20180818_215057.png.aef3afe49f8e5ad01c24ca9c6bf48477.png

 

Some maps have hilarious misaligns that 100% came out from the mapper getting obsessed with detailing some areas as well -The last image has the entire map aligned except two parts that completely ruin it, am sure the mapper either did it quickly or went insane trying to align that room-:  

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_215234.png.2854ecbbbc40bde3a936d095eee804cf.pngScreenshot_Doom_20180818_215240.png.e841bbb8b281e793b3f84197f9202589.pngScreenshot_Doom_20180818_215355.png.db3c4ee40afd8022a343bbca48e0db42.png

 

Way too many places with STARTAN textures have misaligns. Ones welcoming the player to doom 1 :

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_214704.png.4d09fba63445f8958124b1444c9d9a4f.pngScreenshot_Doom_20180818_214654.png.5136085844d47ed4938112329bdabc1f.pngScreenshot_Doom_20180818_214721.png.309dded09979897d170b83e59a1696f9.png

 

And one of the most WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT I CANNOT UNSEE texturing-yes this is on two different windows, One of them is accessible from outside so you can see it in all its glory (comes with a horribly chosen floor under a soulsphere too-:

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_214309.png.12204447000c4bbce00643a8fcf26aeb.png

 

On topic : TIL E2M1 has some crazy brick texturing that puts many maps to shame.

 

Edit

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_221338.png.c3daef0d7a9b51cfe8ba1afc101bdaf2.pngScreenshot_Doom_20180818_221323.png.f57e97136e8331368445f19bc5de1017.png

 

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Posted (edited)

I've said it before, and it was probably brought up a hundred times during Doom the wad id Did's development: Despite being one of his rules, Romero really didn't care about texture alignment. E2 and E3 have much better examples of properly aligned textures, with some obvious misses. E3M4 is always my go-to example: The start room has questionable alignment on the gargoyles, but the skin border in the crusher area is aligned almost perfectly despite oddball line lengths and angles.

 

What Romero was really good at in E1 was height-based detailing and creating texture "palettes" that compliment each other well and signify different areas of the same level. A lot of his misalignments are the result of trying to break up orthogonal angles with STAR* textures that aren't really suited for it or splitting lines to use 24-wide SUPPORT2 borders. Also some of the fault lies with the textures themselves--COMPTALL is still a pain in the ass to align with today's visual previews, after all.

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Don't forget the vine structure in E2M4, as shown on the screenshot below.

 

But if you realize that this was all in the nineties, while we were still in the times when graphics in the games was mostly symbolic (red is blood, blue is probably sky), it is not a problem at all and I believe that even if Romero or somebody else noticed the misaligned texture, they didn't really care. The game looked awfully better than, let's say, Wolf or Spear of Destiny anyway.

 

I personally don't remember noticing or worrying about any misalignments back in the nineties. What annoyed me more was the rooms with nukage or water on the ceiling, though :)

 

I would say that perfectly aligned textures is a kind of requirement for maps created nowadays as we have better tools and a lot of modern games that we tend to compare (GZ)Doom to.

 

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_234628.png.fba855e8741a585aa0343933ec12a3fc.png

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Many of those cited misalignments I think are exactly as the mapper intended (eg e1m1) and aren’t misalignments at all. It might be a good idea to take the misalignment spotting to another thread.

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Friendly monsters are doable in Boom.

 

Add 128 to the thing's "flag" argument in the THINGS lump, which you can edit in SLADE. Works with any monster, not just helper dogs.

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23 hours ago, Agent6 said:

Those misalignment issues would be something new about Doom I just discovered. They're probably not easily noticed because I swear I never noticed them myself while playing in any Doom game, only in various PWADs :v .

 

If you ever get into map making, you'll start seeing them everywhere, trust me.

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6 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Friendly monsters are doable in Boom.

 

Add 128 to the thing's "flag" argument in the THINGS lump, which you can edit in SLADE. Works with any monster, not just helper dogs.

 

Technically MBF, which added both the friendly flag and helper dogs on top of boom.

 

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While playing Brutal Doom, I found out that walking through glass windows on noclip can instakill you, even if you're in 200% health and in full armor.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know it was here, but SKINLOW texture is based on... hairy forearm :) I noticed it on hires version.

Watch:

left - hires

right - original

 

1321860790_W92_1copy.jpg.6675234b0c776d6d80e000db79314b40.jpg

 

I know that one skinmet is based on Adrian's or Kevin's knee (I don't remember whose knee it was) :D

 

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32 minutes ago, Teder said:

I don't know it was here, but SKINLOW texture is based on... hairy forearm :) I noticed it on hires version.

Watch:

left - hires

right - original

I know that one skinmet is based on Adrian's or Kevin's knee (I don't remember whose knee it was) :D

 

Ugh, i can't unsee that now.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Catpho said:

Ugh, i can't unsee that now.

I laughed like hell after @Teder said about Adrian's/Kevin's knee!

 

Yeah, even I can't unsee that texture now.

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2 hours ago, Catpho said:

Ugh, i can't unsee that now.

 

Isn't that texture supposed to be kinda gross though? You know, hell and all that :P

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Speaking of things once seen can't be unseen, I found out yesterday that some of the hub doors in tricks 'n traps are cut in the rightmost border. 

 

DOOM01.png.c56a20ba3da40229fc4f41abe2c53a51.png

 

DOOM02.png.84967b48dcb7cfe9bc458362a5db1628.png

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Well, after all these years I've only recently discovered the RL secret and the secret room with a few stimpacks to the left of the entrance to the outside area on MAP01 of Doom 2, and by accident.

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How the BFG actually works. As in the first ball of plasma and then the random tracers after.

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On 8/18/2018 at 3:27 PM, Dragonsbrethren said:

...Despite being one of his rules, Romero really didn't care about texture alignment...

I don't think it was a case of not caring about alignment. Consider these points:

  • They were all new to Doom mapping
  • The concept of Doom mapping was changing each day
  • The tools were primitive
  • They may have had to align manually, wall by wall
  • At 320x200, misalignment is a little less obvious
  • They were in a rush to release, and the computers of the day were slow. Node and reject building was particularly slow. Even starting the game was slow.

 

20 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Looks pretty random to me...

Spoiler

damage = 0;
	for (j=0;j<15;j++)
		damage += (P_Random()&7) + 1;

 

...random enough for DrPengin's post to stand as-is.

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Posted (edited)

That's damage. Damage is random near-everywhere in Doom, and thus not a unique attribute to BFG tracers. His post does not stand as is.

It's also highly unlikely that's what he noticed about them. When people don't know how the BFG works, the first thing they notice is the nonsensical behavior of where the tracers emit from (confusing some people to even think it's an explosion), not its apparent damage output.

Edited by Edward850

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2018 at 5:09 AM, Pegg said:

Example that feels horrible :

 

Screenshot_Doom_20180818_215057.png.aef3afe49f8e5ad01c24ca9c6bf48477.png

 

You guys must have lazer eyesight to notice ones like this, holy balls. The examples where STARTAN panels are clearly being cut off halfway and whatnot are one thing - I get those, but noticing the grain in the grey textures not wrapping 100% properly?! You guys would hate to look around in my maps if this kind of thing is a bother!

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I spot it quite often in various maps (especially IWAD maps), but it's... "acceptable" at least, heh. I guess that 'laservision' comes with time once you're used to seeing maps which have been sufficiently 'autoaligned', etc. Not a deal breaker though. :P

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I'm also starting to agree with @Jon.

 

I don't think a lot of those misalignment issues really are issues but rather just how the creators wanted them, simply because they seem to be just too numerous for all of them to fall under that category.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/21/2018 at 9:26 AM, Agent6 said:

Well, after all these years I've only recently discovered the RL secret and the secret room with a few stimpacks to the left of the entrance to the outside area on MAP01 of Doom 2, and by accident.


From these data I can analyze:
1) You are not tried to edit MAP01 and make another clone like many of us.
2) Not much used IDDT and IDCLIP cheats.
3) Not played deathmatch on MAP01.

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