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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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@Fonze @ketmar @Gez Glad to know I'm not insane!

 

@kb1 I guess you also learned something new today :) Just for the record, I checked by restarting the map and noclipping to the area of interest.

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So I know that the PC version and the PS1/PSX versions of DooM had slime trails but I was not aware this was the case for DooM 2 GBA. This is taken from MAP05: The Waste Tunnels.

 

GBADOOM2SLIMTROLE.png.edf4cb74b5a2b5e8646a7b399521a0b9.png

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10 hours ago, Linguica said:

Fireball targeting has an inaccurate vertical component. The game attempts to calculate what vertical angle to launch the fireball at by determining the distance between the monster and the player. Unfortunately it uses P_AproxDistance which works by taking the X and Y differences, but instead of taking the hypotenuse of the triangle, it just takes the larger of the two plus half the shorter. This number is invariably a little bigger than the "real" distance and so the fireball is pitched at a less extreme angle, since the game assumes the fireball will be traveling further than it really is and will have more time for its vertical position to change. The ultimate effect of all of this is that any time a monster shoots a fireball on a vertical angle, it always underestimates the angle, and if the monster is approximately on a diagonal from you (so the X and Y values are about the same), the magnitude of this error will be magnified.

 

If a monster is at a sufficiently great angle above you, its fireballs will always pass over your head. You rarely notice this, though, because the monster must be at a nearly 45 degree angle above you, and in Doom you don't look up.

 

Untitled.mov.lossy.gif

Thanks for the concrete explanation. I think this is another engine bug, for which it would be nice to provide an optional fix for, but the fix would alter gameplay. I'd like to see the vertical component have a random component applied, so the monsters would have a chance vs. having perfect aim.

 

9 hours ago, KVELLER said:

@Fonze @ketmar @Gez Glad to know I'm not insane!

 

@kb1 I guess you also learned something new today :) Just for the record, I checked by restarting the map and noclipping to the area of interest.

I sure did!

 

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TNT Map16 (Deepest Reaches):

 

I learned while playing through TNT that the Blue Key is not required for finishing this level. You can go right to the Yellow Key from the start of the level. When you get past the first door, jump into the pit below and go left. There's a floor near where the stairs build to get out of the pit. When you step on this floor, it will rise and bring you up to a hidden area. At the top, go through the hidden door in front of you and then ride the lift down. While the lift is going down, there will be a window on the right near the bottom that you can run into. Once you run through it, you can work your way to the Yellow Key from here. Afterwards, you can go back the way you came from and go to the exit without needing to get the Blue Key and the Blue Door to get to the Yellow Key area.

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In E3M3, the water is damaging.

But I am not only speaking about the "heavy water" around the bridge leading to the secret "furnace" area with the Berserk, the Backpack and the raising floor with the Pinky(ies). The "sink" just before the Invulsphere in the "cellar" (Sector 51) also does a good number on you if you decide to bathe a little. In fact, it's more damaging than any blood or nukage in the same map.

Also, the inaccessible parts of the nukage in the southeastern room (Sectors 12 and 15) are harmless - justified as they cannot be reached via nonlegitimate play -, and a small portion of the outside part of the "fenced balcony" next to the bloody pipe room with the BFG (Linedef 919) is (not set im)passable.
Okay, okay, I checked the map in DBuilder to be convinced that the Invul-water is indeed damaging and found more than I was inclined to.

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FLOOR4_8's (and 5_1's presumably) hexagons align perfectly with the 16 unit grid. Perfect for doing some detailing!

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I found out the secret level exist to Level 32 in Doom 2 just 2 days ago and the secret level exist to E4M9 in The Ultimate Doom just 3 days ago.

 

I found out them by watching doom videos on youtube. I was unable to find out them without youtube videos.

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On 12/13/2018 at 5:06 PM, KVELLER said:

FLOOR4_8's (and 5_1's presumably) hexagons align perfectly with the 16 unit grid. Perfect for doing some detailing!

Same for 5_2 and 5_3, too. (Well, basically 5_2 is just an acid-damaged version of 5_3.)
Also, FLOOR5_4 and FLAT8 have their tiles (tile gaps) on the exact same spots. This could help you as well. ;)

What I became aware of despite experiencing it every now and then, yet ignoring it constantly:
- The maps playing "The Demon's Dead" are always followed up by one having "The Healer Stalks" in Doom II.

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I just found out that what I think Doom looks like (and have done for years) is wrong due to the aspect ratio. The fatter look on the left is so familiar (it's my mind's eye Doom) that the ratio on the right feels wrong, can't get used to it.

 

Doom95Comparison.png

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The second one is actually the aberration. Before the DOS release there was a version for Next Computers which looked like the first. Afterwards id Software made the Jaguar port and fixed the aspect to resemble the first again.

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2 minutes ago, Space Marinara said:

The second one is actually the aberration. Before the DOS release there was a version for Next Computers which looked like the first. Afterwards id Software made the Jaguar port and fixed the aspect to resemble the first again.

 

I'd like to believe that. I find the comparisons with box art / source sculptures on doomwiki quite convincing though, plus the point about the native resolution of the graphics app they used. What do you reckon?

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33 minutes ago, Space Marinara said:

The second one is actually the aberration. Before the DOS release there was a version for Next Computers which looked like the first.

I don't know if i's actually true that the aspect ratio is wrong on the NeXT, but it's irrelevant. The product was the DOS version; the NeXT version was only used internally for development.

 

Tall pixels are necessary to make the art visually consistent with itself (see example of mancubus arm cannons that change their shape without aspect ratio correction) and with its physical sources (models and paintings).

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One of the artists messed up the offsets in one of the screws (or whatever they are) in METAL2 (and derivatives).

 

rlUnFhY.png

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That's a neat demonstration using the Mancubus' arm and probably explains why I prefer the ganglier Archvile too.

There are other elements which still indicate they were designed for a square aspect though. Check out the barrel exit of the Super shotgun in both modes:

 

SSG.png.8630800b297be141f8bfc98b3e6c1c14.png

 

The bottom barrel appears to be shorn off at an angle from the effect of narrowing. Then there's the Mastermind's chaingun which is oval shaped in-game instead of circular and even map architecture is altered from it's design.

 

It's beginning to seem like a real hodge podge actually X)

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1 hour ago, Space Marinara said:

There are other elements which still indicate they were designed for a square aspect though. Check out the barrel exit of the Super shotgun in both modes:

 

SSG.png.8630800b297be141f8bfc98b3e6c1c14.png

 

Strangely enough, the shell looks better in the bottom image.

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It could be a difference between Doom1/2? The SSG was added in Doom 2, perhaps id got lazy/forgetful and didn't correct it for the aspect ratio?

 

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8 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

 

Strangely enough, the shell looks better in the bottom image.

Yeah that's true. It's funny how they don't even seem like they're being held, but instead look sort of velcro'd on!

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1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

It could be a difference between Doom1/2? The SSG was added in Doom 2, perhaps id got lazy/forgetful and didn't correct it for the aspect ratio?

 

That doesn't explain the Spider Mastermind's chaingun though.

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It's not present on the physical model (or rather, it's not the same as the one present on the physical model; not the same position: on the model the rotary cannon is embedded in the spiderbrain body, while on the final sprite it's part of the mechanical chassis). If it was drawn in DPaint, using this software's circle tool, the base shape would have logically ignored aspect ratio issues because the image editing software itself did not have a concept for this. It's the monitor that stretched the image, DPaint doesn't know how the monitor displays its images, it's not its business.

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On 12/14/2018 at 9:01 PM, dmslr said:

It's just blue floor not water

e1m1.gif

You should see me swimming there everyday. "Not water" in my pool huh?

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33 minutes ago, Gez said:

If it was drawn in DPaint, using this software's circle tool, the base shape would have logically ignored aspect ratio issues because the image editing software itself did not have a concept for this. It's the monitor that stretched the image, DPaint doesn't know how the monitor displays its images, it's not its business.

 

Ah so the tool was a fixed shape- interesting! That means that the Spiderdemon should look like the thinner variant of these two, with the maintained chaingun...

 

Master.gif.8af0bd4de683d6d448384a9b11abb1e2.gif

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1 hour ago, elend said:

@KVELLER Can't... unsee... :(

 

Haha, I feel ya. I have a couple rooms in my map that use almost exclusively that texture, and now I'm tempted to fix the texture manually :P

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I just found out that in Doom, when you battle a boss on ExM8 in coop and he dies while every player is dead, then the level's ending is not triggered. The result is that you're stuck on the level and there's no way to exit since you can't restart the level by dying like you can do in single player mode.


This is the code to blame.

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4 hours ago, axdoomer said:

I just found out that in Doom, when you battle a boss on ExM8 in coop and he dies while every player is dead, then the level's ending is not triggered. The result is that you're stuck on the level and there's no way to exit since you can't restart the level by dying like you can do in single player mode.


This is the code to blame.

 

This has happened to me on E1M8 in the 90's :D

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Doom E3M6

 

There's a way to avoid opening the Cacodemon/Lost Soul trap/building (that contains a Soulsphere) near the section with the secret exit/teleporter leading to the Y-shaped building.

 

In the marble green building that contains the hidden teleporter (with the hidden Energy Cell Pack directly across from it), directly follow the path leading to the hidden door WITHOUT crossing any of the steps that touch that path. So pretty much, don't change floor heights when getting to that teleporter. The walkover lines are all on the steps and not on that path itself.1

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On 12/5/2018 at 8:27 PM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

So I know that the PC version and the PS1/PSX versions of DooM had slime trails but I was not aware this was the case for DooM 2 GBA. This is taken from MAP05: The Waste Tunnels.

 

GBADOOM2SLIMTROLE.png.edf4cb74b5a2b5e8646a7b399521a0b9.png

This could be one of two bugs. Most nodebuilders do not comput the angle for split walls correctly. The problem might noe lie in the engine, but in the nodebuilder. The engine is drawing incorrect data in a correct manner. In theory, this could be used for odd special effects. I can't think of any good use atm, but these kinds of peepholes are a possibility, they can be made bigger.

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