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Sigvatr

Things about Doom you just found out

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Three of Tom Mustaine's maps were rejected, but none of those seem to be because of poor quality. One was too short (and became TNT Map01), one was too similar to a Doom II map, and with the last I don't think it's been officially stated, but it seems it was already avaiable as Map06 of #1dwango, and id didn't want any of the Master Levels to be something already available online. It still became Map17 of TNT.

 

Then there are Christen Klie's maps. While I don't like a single map he's made, (and keep in mind, I'm okay with pretty much everything else in the Master Levels) I think it's more likely some of his submissions were rejected because otherwise almost half the project would just be his maps, which wouldn't be fair to the other contributors.

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There's a few missing textures in Doom II's MAP 29 found in the Arch-vile room, about five of them:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20210804_155700.png?width=1206&height=679

 

The other four can't actually be seen in-game but it's on top of the switch, you can see it by typing the "fly" command in the console if your source port has it:

Screenshot_Doom_20210804_160720.png?width=1206&height=679 Screenshot_Doom_20210804_160746.png?width=1206&height=679

 

What they look like in Doom Builder:

mistex1.png?width=1206&height=679 mistex2.png?width=1206&height=679

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When you telefrag something , apparently how much overlap there is between the two hitboxes matters, such that the corpse can go flying, similarly to when rocketed or barreled, when telefragged "at an angle." However, this only seems to be in effect in less advanced ports.

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On 6/18/2021 at 12:52 PM, Ar_e_en said:

Skillsaw used this effect to create invisible Archviles in Valiant without running out of DeHackEd entity states, and due to specific hard-coded limits in the DOOM engine - other monsters (other invisible Archviles included) could actually attack the invisible Archviles, because they were considered to be their own separate entity in the wad, unlike normal Archviles - which are hard-coded to have some special privileges in the wad and base game.

In fact, any monster that replaces an Arch-Vile in a WAD also inherits its special privileges.

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5 hours ago, RileyXY1 said:

In fact, any monster that replaces an Arch-Vile in a WAD also inherits its special privileges.

Yup :)

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The soldiers walking along this top ledge in e1m4 don't attack or shoot back if you stay in the tunnel and do not enter the room. Not really sure what causes it.

VCVZEky.png

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On 7/17/2021 at 6:36 AM, Gez said:

It's a "sound tunnel", which lets the noise of the player attacks reach the monster closet so that the monsters wake up and start wandering into the teleport lines.

 

I always wondered why the visible holes were never covered up with a midtex or something, or is it just that no one thought of that back in the day?

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3 hours ago, Salt-Man Z said:

I always wondered why the visible holes were never covered up with a midtex or something, or is it just that no one thought of that back in the day?

 

They were nearly invisible at 320x200

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On 8/17/2021 at 7:23 PM, HAK3180 said:

When you telefrag something , apparently how much overlap there is between the two hitboxes matters, such that the corpse can go flying, similarly to when rocketed or barreled, when telefragged "at an angle." However, this only seems to be in effect in less advanced ports.

 

Happened in @Altima's 24-hour stream on Doom's 20th anniversary. In TNT map 7 he telefragged a shotgunner, the shotgunner flew off and teleported onto the (bigger) platform where the teleporter to the red key is. It was one of the funniest highlights. 

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On 8/22/2021 at 4:27 AM, Spectre01 said:

The soldiers walking along this top ledge in e1m4 don't attack or shoot back if you stay in the tunnel and do not enter the room. Not really sure what causes it.

 

On 8/22/2021 at 4:29 AM, Gustavo6046 said:

Might be a REJECTS bug?

 

It is. Sectors 81 and 93 are mutually blind to each other in both directions.

There are a few other places where sight is blocked. The most interesting being that sectors 97,119,121 are mutually blind with sectors 113,116,117. That is, the room by the nukage river with quarter circle of barrels, and its continuation to the west, are invisible to the stairs beyond (those that lead up to the hub containing the blue key). If you run through to said stairs, the monsters that follow won't attack until they reach the bottom stair itself.

 

v1kQsyo.png


The full list of sector pairs which were mutually blind in the original but which ZenNode's reject builder found a direct line of sight: 1,32; 6,120; 12,19; 16,37; 33,42; 37,48; 49,57; 77,129; 81,93; 85,120; 97,113; 97,116; 97,117; 103,111; 103,120; 113,119; 113,121; 116,119; 116,121; 117,119; and 117,121.

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The reloading sounds of the super shotgun in final doom has a lower sample rate than the sounds found in doom and doom2 wads

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On 7/26/2021 at 7:26 AM, SiFi270 said:

Three of Tom Mustaine's maps were rejected, but none of those seem to be because of poor quality. One was too short (and became TNT Map01), one was too similar to a Doom II map, and with the last I don't think it's been officially stated, but it seems it was already avaiable as Map06 of #1dwango, and id didn't want any of the Master Levels to be something already available online. It still became Map17 of TNT.

 

Then there are Christen Klie's maps. While I don't like a single map he's made, (and keep in mind, I'm okay with pretty much everything else in the Master Levels) I think it's more likely some of his submissions were rejected because otherwise almost half the project would just be his maps, which wouldn't be fair to the other contributors.

And yet he got 6 map slots for some reason.... -_-

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I only recently learned about the existence of tics (realtics and gametics).

I had no idea those were running in the background. 

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Except in GZDoom, the TNTEM cheat kills pain elementals in such a way that they spawn lost souls as normal, which are also immediately killed. This has major implications for the number displayed after using this cheat. If you have a map with nothing but 10 pain elementals and you immediately type TNTEM upon starting the map, it will say "40 monsters killed," and your kill count will say 10/10.

 

Also, precisely where the pain elemental is matters. If it's in a corner and can't spawn three lost souls upon its death, TNTEM may only credit you with two phantom kills. 

 

So it seems GZDoom is best for determining actual initial monster count.

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7 hours ago, Okej5722 said:

Infinitely tall monsters always existed.

No infinitely tall monsters exist. No entity in Doom is infinitely tall.

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18 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

No infinitely tall monsters exist. No entity in Doom is infinitely tall.

 

I actually had a chance to VC with John Romero recently and took the opportunity to ask him why enemies had infinitely tall collision boxes. The short answer of it is that they didn't have enough time to program in the code necessary to handle the player landing on top of enemies, and that otherwise it wasn't impacting the players experience in any meaningful manner. This is why this feature exists in Heretic, as it granted another several months to refine the source code.

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15 minutes ago, Kevansevans said:

I actually had a chance to VC with John Romero recently and took the opportunity to ask him why enemies had infinitely tall collision boxes.

I'm going to be nitpicky and point out again that they don't have an infinitely tall collision box.

Remember, all projectiles and hitscans can pass over or under objects, and moving enemies can be blocked by low ceilings, both elements that require a height to be defined.

What's missing is solid objects never check Z heights for collision. They basically only do half the check. The height is still there and still part of the collision, it's just not used in that particular routine (indeed for the reason you got from Romero). It's used everywhere else however.

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You can "dance" with revenants by baiting them into a punch and then backstepping it, just like pinkies. If you're fast you can completely seal one off from firing missiles altogether. I used to think you couldn't reliably win boxing matches with revenants, but you can.

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I wasn't crazy! Map2 in Doom 2 had bars on the left switch! But that was a different version of the game.

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5 hours ago, tescari said:

I wasn't crazy! Map2 in Doom 2 had bars on the left switch! But that was a different version of the game.

Yep

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i decided to buy masters of doom a while ago, and it describes imps as "a red-eyed Bigfoot-like beast with brown fur covering his muscles and metal spikes protruding from his shoulders and arms", so i guess even if we didn't get fuzzy shamblers, we do at least get fuzzy imps

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Decino did a vid recently about mancubus fireballs going through walls, which is pretty well known but something interesting I learned recently is that this wasn't always a problem. In the old press release beta, things were separated into distinct classes, with only players going through what would become the normal movement code that the release game uses. Projectiles used a much simpler physics model where they performed a line trace based on their velocity, and if that was unobstructed, they did a full move. So, excepting any bugs in the line trace code, of which there are many, projectiles should never be able to go through walls, and they also have the interesting trait of being infinitely thin.

 

When every thing type was merged into the mobj type, I guess they decided it wasn't worth having special physics for projectiles and made them use the now normal movement code.

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Funnily enough I never realised projectiles could fly through walls in DooM. Now I know why I sometimes die in a D2 map and I'm behind cover.

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On 8/27/2021 at 7:39 PM, Theperson said:

Yep

haha yea, that's the video that showed me! I thought I was going crazy

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On 8/22/2021 at 1:27 PM, Spectre01 said:

The soldiers walking along this top ledge in e1m4 don't attack or shoot back if you stay in the tunnel and do not enter the room. Not really sure what causes it.

 

On 8/26/2021 at 9:08 AM, RjY said:

There are a few other places where sight is blocked. The most interesting being that sectors 97,119,121 are mutually blind with sectors 113,116,117. That is, the room by the nukage river with quarter circle of barrels, and its continuation to the west, are invisible to the stairs beyond (those that lead up to the hub containing the blue key). If you run through to said stairs, the monsters that follow won't attack until they reach the bottom stair itself.

 

v1kQsyo.png

Can't believe I'm still learning so much about this level - reject table anomalies, the area that could trap players in MP (early version), missing textures, that strafejump that bypasses the maze section, the SR50 jump to the exit, Sandy's assertation that HE has his fingerprints on this level (and apparently EVERY MAP in E1)... I think that this is now my favorite E1 map now...

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