Things about Doom you just found out

[DooM_RO]

GoatLord said:

Too bad no attempt at 3D models of Doom's enemies have managed to look better than or even as good as the originals.

I have to agree about that but the ones made by NiuHaka are quite amazing, although the Pinky looks kind of weird.

http://www.doomascension.com/features/3dmodels

[Da Werecat]

It would be nice to see how they move. It's quite important. Most of the 3D models for Doom are spoiled by really amateur animation.

[Avoozl]

The pinky looks too much like a dinosaur, I don't know what the guy was thinking. :P

[bcwood16]

Da Werecat said:

It would be nice to see how they move. It's quite important. Most of the 3D models for Doom are spoiled by really amateur animation.

Those model animations are very good and the pinky moves very realistically.

As for the look of the pinky, that picture just does not do it justice. In game its movements are quite scary and heavy looking. I suppose if you want really faithful sprite replacements then the pinky is certainly a little different, but personally I think the changes help to make the movements more convincing.

Some people may love Doom Ascension for others it may not be their thing....personal taste.

Anyway, its all very early on and things may change :)

[NiuHaka]

Heheh! bcwood16 is an A-Team member and is quite the trooper for not giving out information that I haven't yet.

We haven't shown any progress and won't for a while but all of the models are being replaced with models that have around double the triangle count and will have more Doomsday Engine features utilized. As we progressed through the project the Doomsday Engine had become more powerful and old limitations had evaporated. My desire to make better looking models overpowered my strict anti-scope-creep rules. We even recently convinced the DE devs to lift some of the engines limits to accommodate our new models. *Fist pump*

Da Werecat said:

It would be nice to see how they move. It's quite important. Most of the 3D models for Doom are spoiled by really amateur animation.

I was an animation major and was a professional designer/animator for four years. I still do animation work for clients occasionally. I spend more time combing over and tweaking animation frames than I do the models or textures. In my opinion the animations, for the most part, are the best part of my models... so, in short, i'd better not disappoint lol

Avoozl said:

The pinky looks too much like a dinosaur, I don't know what the guy was thinking. :P

One of my rules when building models for the sake of "realistic" animations is to not allow the monster to defy physics when it has an action that physically interacts with its environment. This is something that will always end up with results that tend to insult Doom fans because the original sprites don't always follow the laws of gravity. So monsters that have backwards bending legs like the Demon and the Cyberdemon I have added an extra joint to reflect the legs of nearly every organic being with two legs. Without that extra joint a creature would have to waddle like a penguin in order to move around. Or its feet would have to face backwards to be more effective. Neither of those options are good ones. Also the demon has a tail to act as a counter balance because without that he would fall on his face. The second version of the demon will probably be very similar to that one in body structure but otherwise I believe it will be more loyal in appearance to the original... I think... maybe... probably not.

[Da Werecat]

Sounds very promising. :)

By the way, model skins are a real delight to look at. Very detailed and convincingly shaded.

[DooM_RO]

NiuHaka said:

Heheh! bcwood16 is an A-Team member and is quite the trooper for not giving out information that I haven't yet.

We haven't shown any progress and won't for a while but all of the models are being replaced with models that have around double the triangle count and will have more Doomsday Engine features utilized. As we progressed through the project the Doomsday Engine had become more powerful and old limitations had evaporated. My desire to make better looking models overpowered my strict anti-scope-creep rules. We even recently convinced the DE devs to lift some of the engines limits to accommodate our new models. *Fist pump*


I was an animation major and was a professional designer/animator for four years. I still do animation work for clients occasionally. I spend more time combing over and tweaking animation frames than I do the models or textures. In my opinion the animations, for the most part, are the best part of my models... so, in short, i'd better not disappoint lol


One of my rules when building models for the sake of "realistic" animations is to not allow the monster to defy physics when it has an action that physically interacts with its environment. This is something that will always end up with results that tend to insult Doom fans because the original sprites don't always follow the laws of gravity. So monsters that have backwards bending legs like the Demon and the Cyberdemon I have added an extra joint to reflect the legs of nearly every organic being with two legs. Without that extra joint a creature would have to waddle like a penguin in order to move around. Or its feet would have to face backwards to be more effective. Neither of those options are good ones. Also the demon has a tail to act as a counter balance because without that he would fall on his face. The second version of the demon will probably be very similar to that one in body structure but otherwise I believe it will be more loyal in appearance to the original... I think... maybe... probably not.

TWICE the triangles?!Man, that's almost as good if not as good as Doom 3! In fact, what do you think about adapting this mod or at least the monsters for Doom 3 also?

One more thing. This is quite a massive undertaking and will probably take a very long time to finish so why not start a thread to hire new people? I'm quite sure there are some very talented 3D artists around here and since you will also make a map pack maybe you should also get some of the top mappers on your side?

[NiuHaka]

Not going to adapt this for Doom 3 because I don't have any special love for it like I do for Doom 1 & 2 but once I release this mod i'll also release the raw model assets for anyone to do what they want with them. That means that people will be able to get these into Doom 3 if they want.

As for recruiting people I may attempt to recruit more people once we release new screenshots and videos of the mod. bcwood16 is a very skilled modeler and as of right now I don't feel like sharing much more of the models. I'm doing this so that i'll have something to do during my free time and I don't have any desire to burn that up.

PM me for any more questions you might have about Doom Ascension. I don't want to highjack this thread.

[MG_Man]

I think the problem with all the Doom model projects is that they don't follow the original art design very well.

Despite the gore, Doom's art style is usually very smooth, shiny, and clean (due to being made off of clay models) but all the models and texture packs are insanely gritty and dirty instead.

It's not about the polycount, it's about the shape and the textures. The Doom Ascension models are very well made, I must say, but even then they look like they'd fit better into Quake 3 (also the map textures aren't that great)

[Devalaous]

NiuHaka, I love that demon design.

(And this is from someone that hates 3D models in Doom)

[Avoozl]

NiuHaka said:

One of my rules when building models for the sake of "realistic" animations is to not allow the monster to defy physics when it has an action that physically interacts with its environment. This is something that will always end up with results that tend to insult Doom fans because the original sprites don't always follow the laws of gravity. So monsters that have backwards bending legs like the Demon and the Cyberdemon I have added an extra joint to reflect the legs of nearly every organic being with two legs. Without that extra joint a creature would have to waddle like a penguin in order to move around. Or its feet would have to face backwards to be more effective. Neither of those options are good ones. Also the demon has a tail to act as a counter balance because without that he would fall on his face. The second version of the demon will probably be very similar to that one in body structure but otherwise I believe it will be more loyal in appearance to the original... I think... maybe... probably not.

I always thought the demons defied the logic of reality.

[_bruce_]

NiuHaka - the models have a serious Quake3 feel.
Quality wise they are beyond great. Having tried such stuff myself I'm blown away by how swell your models look.... proportion, fullness, character - it's a tough job to make it look great.

[129thVisplane]

Just found out that vanilla demos desync really hard if one "idclev"s to a different map when recording. Not sure if it was mentioned already, though.
Also it seems that the "resurrect" ccmd should not be overused in Brutal Doom, unless one actually wants to noclip though certain impassable walls. That happened to me in Map13 of Doom II a few times; too bad I don't have any means of recording my screen. It was pretty cool.

[Shadow Hog]

ZDoom lets you use the mousewheel to zoom in and out of the automap.

All these years, moving my right hand off of the mouse to get at the +/- keys...

[Suitepee]

I just found out now (whilst doing some Doom 2 livestream filler) that Revenants can be kited to make them punch endlessly within the range of their rocket's splash damage; i.e. they'll never use their rockets at all if you stay close enough to them and will continually try to close the gap and punch you, unless they 'queue' one up if their pain state is triggered.
Will make dealing with these buggers easier in the future!

[The_MártonJános]

Suitepee said:

Will make dealing with these buggers easier in the future!

Certainly, although most max-speedrunners have already exploited this feature for their advantage.

[mrthejoshmon]

Getting killed and then crushed by a door sends the camera into the void, unless the door re-opens then it comes back out... Only to go back under when the door closes again :/

Also, the host of an online game of Doom 1/2 for th 360 recieves lag instead of the clients, which is brilliant when you get the awful connection guy we all hate joining the lobby with his 1 RED BAR which results in a 1/2 second delay for my actions ultimately giving him the huge advantage!

[Shadow Hog]

You can feasibly kill Cacodemons with only 2 SSG shots.

I always did it in 3, but today I randomly did it in 2. Okay.

[cannonball]

Suitepee said:

I just found out now (whilst doing some Doom 2 livestream filler) that Revenants can be kited to make them punch endlessly within the range of their rocket's splash damage; i.e. they'll never use their rockets at all if you stay close enough to them and will continually try to close the gap and punch you, unless they 'queue' one up if their pain state is triggered.
Will make dealing with these buggers easier in the future!

I love that I am the only person who faces a revenant that uses misslies from 2 inches away, heh.

[The_MártonJános]

Shadow Hog said:

You can feasibly kill Cacodemons with only 2 SSG shots.

I always did it in 3, but today I randomly did it in 2. Okay.

When Cacos/PE's don't die at the second well-aimed shot of it SSG, I often switch to normal SG (or Chaingun, even Pistol) to finish them off.

[Fernito]

Cell said:

When Cacos/PE's don't die at the second well-aimed shot of it SSG, I often switch to normal SG (or Chaingun, even Pistol) to finish them off.

The same thing here for Mancubi, but with 3 SSG shots; and for Barons of Hell, with 5 SSG shots.

[Acid]

I just found how to give the Light Goggles via console. (give infrared)

[The_MártonJános]

Fernito said:

The same thing here for Mancubi, but with 3 SSG shots; and for Barons of Hell, with 5 SSG shots.

Those sometimes irk the freakin' Hell out of me, even if I know that it is rather supposed to be in this way. Yet I'm surprised when I succeed at owning an Archvile within 3 rockets.

[Holering]

The rocket launcher pickup looks like a dick.

[Platinum Shell]

Might wanna get that checked out

[Rayziik]

-

[vdgg]

Rayzik said:

You can also kill a revenant with 1 SSG shot, if all bullets land and they all do 15 damage each. I've done it twice, and I figure it's extremely rare since 300 is the SSG's max damage output and is also the revenant HP.

No, you didn't, sorry. The revenants must have been damaged earlier.

(Even though the links below refer to vanilla, I'm sure ZDoom and derivatives don't just roll 20 times "15 HP" independently.
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=882198#post882198
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1089972#post1089972

[Obsidian]

BloodyAcid said:

I just found how to give the Light Goggles via console. (give infrared)

So that's how you do it. :D

[Devalaous]

I still cant summon everything yet due to odd naming choices. Summon mancubus or imp is the most obvious offender, you'd think it'd have been made user-friendly. trooper and fatso? Ugh.

[Obsidian]

I thought Imp was "Summon DoomImp". I'm presuming it's to avoid confusion with Heretic's one, but still.