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GoatLord

Doom 64 mising monsters rant

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Considering that the spectre is a reused demon, the nightmare imp is a reused imp, and the pistol guys look identical to the shotgun guys, why didn't Midway use that extra sprite information for two or three of the missing enemies? I understand that the sprites were bigger, and thus sucked up more memory, but their attempt at compensating could have been used to say, implement the archvile and revenant. I think players would have been okay sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imps for that, maybe even the pistol guys, in order to have the two baddest-ass monsters in the game.

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Sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imp wouldn't have freed any room for more sprites, because as you cleverly noticed they use the same sprites as the demon and imp. So, truly sacrificing the spectre and NI would have meant sacrificing also the demon and imp.

What's more important, archvile and revenant, or imp and demon?

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Gez said:

Sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imp wouldn't have freed any room for more sprites, because as you cleverly noticed they use the same sprites as the demon and imp. So, truly sacrificing the spectre and NI would have meant sacrificing also the demon and imp.

What's more important, archvile and revenant, or imp and demon?


So what you're saying is, recolored sprites don't take up additional memory?

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Nope, they don't -- they only take up the space needed for their own palette, which is 768 bytes per monster.

Note that Baron/Hell Knights are done this way too; contrarily to PC Doom where they have two different sprite sets.

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Archvile wasn't going to be in it regardless since he wasn't even in the PSX version, only ones that were truly missed were the Revenant and the Chaingunner.
I'd like someone to do a N64 rendition of them but they'll need to fit into D64's unique style which isn't exactly easy.

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If someone were to make Doom 64 revenants, chaingunners and arch-viles, that would allow to create Plutonia 64.

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Ask Footman. He's got Doom64 Revenants and chaingunners already made. Maybe it's time they were included in a new project? *crosses fingers that it'll happen...*

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vinnie245 said:

I'd like someone to do a N64 rendition of them but they'll need to fit into D64's unique style which isn't exactly easy.


I think replicating Doom 64's monsters, based on 3D models, would be far easier than replicating Doom's monsters, based on clay models.

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Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30151&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=15#p550555

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Gez said:

If someone were to make Doom 64 revenants, chaingunners and arch-viles, that would allow to create Plutonia 64.



Now, that would be awesome!

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jute said:

I'm not really fond of how scrawny this guy looks, though I guess it's a lot better than nothing. I also think the stylistic clash of pasting the Doom 2 chaingunner parts onto the Doom 64 former human sprite is a bit off-putting, but maybe that's just me.

As demonstrated here, the chaingunner is potentially the easiest of the missing enemies to make sprites for, because the basic zombie sprites are available. As far as I can tell, the Doom 2 chaingun guy is based on the same basic player/zombieman/shotgunner sprite, just recolored and redrawn to be bulkier. If that approach were taken here so that he didn't look so thin, it would be a huge improvement in my eyes.

If I get frisky, I might try doing it that way myself, because my WIP Doom64 chaingunner model's proportions and armor style stray a bit too far from the other two former human enemies (and I probably don't have the modelling skill to make it more accurate).

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30151&hilit=Doom+64

I couldn't find any new revenant sprites in Footman's stuff (not to knock the guy, but most of the new graphics in there seem to be fairly lazy recolors and patchwork). The PSX revenant sounds are included, though, along with some DECORATE to make the revenant slower and fire two missiles per attack. Spiderdemon sounds from PSX Doom are also in there, to go along with some recolored arachnotron sprites.

I'm not seeing any chaingun dude in there, though (and the nightmare imp replaces the standard chaingunner via decorate), so I don't know about that. A google search earlier today brought me a screenshot of a bloodied player sprite that was apparently Footman's chaingunner, but it didn't really strike me as being all that impressive, compared with the above former human sprite edits.

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=15#p550555

I think a complete set of such recolored sprites for the shotgun guy might be interesting, though I sort of like how the two zombies in Doom 64 are harder to distinguish. You can't always tell which of the zombies strolling around the area are just harmless chumps and which are actually dangerous, so this uncertainty sort of factors into gameplay and the way you approach new situations.

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What we need is a wealthy philanthropist Doomer to pay for someone to make 3d models for all of this crap, since we all suck at doing everything.

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jute said:

Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30151&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=15#p550555


Damn - looks great!

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Sigvatr said:

What we need is a wealthy philanthropist Doomer to pay for someone to make 3d models for all of this crap, since we all suck at doing everything.


What the fuck is your problem?

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jute said:

Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30151&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16969&hilit=Doom+64&start=15#p550555


Please god no

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Mithran Denizen said:

As far as I can tell, the Doom 2 chaingun guy is based on the same basic player/zombieman/shotgunner sprite, just recolored and redrawn to be bulkier. If that approach were taken here so that he didn't look so thin, it would be a huge improvement in my eyes.


IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?). If you compare it with the other Zombies or the Player, you'll see that the sprites don't have much in common except for the basic human shape!

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Vader said:

IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?).


Well, if we discount the fact that almost every boss in Wolf 3D has at least TWO chainguns, you could say that. The only resemblance I can see is that he's wearing a more futuristic suit than the other zombies, more like the "Nazis in Space" theme that Wolf3D bosses have.

Then again Hans Grosse is a Pure Aryan Warrior of sorts, while the chaingunner is nigga/chink ;-)

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Vader said:

IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?). If you compare it with the other Zombies or the Player, you'll see that the sprites don't have much in common except for the basic human shape!

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion. The chaingunner clearly has the same armor shape and patterns as the player sprites and other two zombies. As a demonstration, here is a GIF that overlays a slightly resized shotgunner on the chaingun guy:



You can see the same armor patterns, particularly on the boots, shoulders, and chest area, and aside from several obviously redrawn sections, plenty of details line up.

Given that wolfenstein's bosses only have a single sprite angle I don't see how the chaingunners could be based on Hans Grosse anyway, and none of the other sprites in wolfenstein really match either. Here's Hans, for reference:

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