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Csonicgo

Occupy Wall Street

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I'm amazed there wasn't a thread about this already.

I've been interested in this whole OWS phenomenon. More specifically, the weird press it's been receiving from the media. For a while, it was as if it didn't even exist, but now that it's spreading to other states and cities, there's a growing trend to criticize or mock it. I didn't hear any mocking or criticism when the tea party "movement" happened, but live coverage, and concerts, and well-paid public speakers.

Now I'm hearing from the cynical ones out there that this movement will be dead by christmas, because they'll be "bored". I don't see how someone that has a college degree and cannot find a job would ever be "bored". In fact, it would be more incentive to stay.

And if you're under a rock, here is the wiki article on the thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

So, what do you think is going to come of all this? This isn't like the scientology protests or the tea party protests-- people are actually staying for days.

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Maybe Wall St. will look around for some handy scapegoats to sacrifice, and then pretend to clean up their act. I read a couple news articles about this a few days ago, but they weren't mocking them, just reporting what's going on. I don't watch TV though.

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hex11 said:

Maybe Wall St. will look around for some handy scapegoats to sacrifice, and then pretend to clean up their act. I read a couple news articles about this a few days ago, but they weren't mocking them, just reporting what's going on. I don't watch TV though.




Maybe this is why?

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Yeah, everyone is calling these protesters unemployed hippie-neo Nazis while praising the God fearing Teabaggers from a mere few month ago. Your media is almost an Orwellian parody at this point, America.

Sadly, I think they maybe could have had a petter plan going into this. So far they are basically playing drums and clogging the near by toilets. I still give kudos to the people actually doing something.

Csonicgo said:

So, what do you think is going to come of all this? This isn't like the scientology protests or the tea party protests-- people are actually staying for days.

I have to commend the OWSers, some have stayed for weeks. GreatBigBore has done a three week daily log. Some of these guys are basically living like homeless people, were Teabaggers may have stayed overnight at a hotel.

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As much as I hope this works, it just seems that mere protest won't do anything. They'll just laugh at "those stupid peasants for not knowing their place", and they will continue about their merrily corrupted ways as they always do.

I think something more drastic is needed. Be it violence, be it hacking, be it some sort of more "intellectual" attack. As much as it sucks, sometimes the oppressive regime just cannot be reasoned with and it must be destroyed, not everything can change by waiting for things to be slowly influenced over time to be different.

I can't stop thinking about some sort of alternate version of the United States under a new federal union, with a primary focus on power of the people of a nation, and not their corrupt politicians and corporations. There would also be programs actively trying to change our culture to be a more tolerant and rational one, since let's face it, American culture is flawed and perverse at it's core. We need cultural reprogramming, we need new attitudes about issues.

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Mr. T said:

lol @ violence

Yep, fight the military-industrial complex with guns...




...oh

America may possibly be the only country that could. This is the only reason I like America's leniency with firearms.

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I agree with the protesters that most big business illegally work with the government, rich people should be taxed more, etc. but they just look like a group of angry douchebags to me. They illegally march up streets and complain when they get arrested and act like the American government is an Orwellian dictatorship, when if they were in some place like Libya they'd be killed without trial. Also I heard that they destroyed the restrooms in the local stores and delis.

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Processingcontrol said:

They illegally march up streets and complain when they get arrested and act like the American government is an Orwellian dictatorship, when if they were in some place like Libya they'd be killed without trial. Also I heard that they destroyed the restrooms in the local stores and delis.

Actually, all the cam footage on Youtube pretty much shows the cops, like usual, are just picking on weaker individuals without cause. Mostly.

Oh, and America just killed one of it's own citizens without due process. Very sad. EDIT: I'm actually uncertain about this argument under further research.

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Technician said:

America may possibly be the only country that could. This is the only reason I like America's leniency with firearms.


This is what The Man has in America
http://bbccupholder.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ads-hummer.jpg?w=300&h=278

This is a microwave weapon created by military-industrial complex. Good luck with your arsenal of semi-auto M16s when this thing is cooking you from the inside-out.

OBEY

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Csonicgo said:
I've been interested in this whole OWS phenomenon. More specifically, the weird press it's been receiving from the media. For a while, it was as if it didn't even exist, but now that it's spreading to other states and cities, there's a growing trend to criticize or mock it. I didn't hear any mocking or criticism when the tea party "movement" happened, but live coverage, and concerts, and well-paid public speakers.

Basically, the mainstream media is a bunch of companies financed in the same markets as the banking system the Occupy Wall Street protesters are complaining about. It's the media arm of the same financial sector (along with consultancies and credit rating agencies, at least), bent on furthering the ideas and initiatives of that sector, potentially at the expense of anyone else. This is becoming clear throughout the world, to protesters in Europe, Israel, Chile and many places. And in countries with more progressive economic policies (such as some here in Latin America) the same type of media goes at length to besmirch the image of the government and those policies. This kind of behavior was somewhat evident with media support for (or a blind eye to) dictatorships, coups and other atrocities, but with the turn of the century it's become much more obvious, as the international financial system is more unhinged from the interests of the general world population than ever. There's way too much concentration of capital in too few hands, and banks and the media just try to make societies pay for the lack of economic balance while trying to keep their profits going, making that worse.

One interesting tidbit is that the Tea Party may have helped encourage OWS and its offshoots. While reactionary, perhaps it also opened a door toward more popular types of expression.

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The reason it's so difficult to take these people seriously is because they don't really understand the true causes of their problems.

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Aside from a generalization, that's just a reason that gives the media an easier time not taking them seriously. One of the main initiatives the movement has is for people to get together in an immediate way and work out what their shared problem is and what to do. It's a kind of direct democratic action. The movement can't get stronger without that, and you can't expect them to have predetermined solutions or agreements, which won't come only from themselves, as they are primarily a force or pressure driven by issues. Much less when opposed by a dismissive media structure and surrounding social fears of getting involved in something that faces huge interests that are interwined with much of society. A timid start, but it's hard to expect anything more in their context.

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AndrewB said:

The reason it's so difficult to take these people seriously is because they don't really understand the true causes of their problems.


the last generation fucked them over while collecting socialist pension? becaaaause that's what it looks like to me.


Edit: browsing forums I came upon this comment:

Protesting with iPhones they bought on an installment plan. This is really too funny.


Comments like these are very shallow since there's no really good way to communicate freely other than actual voice that doesn't have a wall-street hand attached.

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Csonicgo said:

So, what do you think is going to come of all this? This isn't like the scientology protests or the tea party protests-- people are actually staying for days.

The Tea Party things were funded and encouraged by people such as the Koch brother. The ideology they were defending -- one of not taxing the rich and of not helping the poor -- was entirely in line with the agenda of the dominant financial caste, that is to say, money is more important than lives.

Occupy Wall Street, on the other hand, is exactly the contrary. It's people fed up by the exaggerated place that the financial caste has taken over the rest of society. It's people who think human lives are worth more than money.

There's a saying that money is a good servant but a bad master. OWS wants money to be nothing more than a servant to human interests. TP wants money to remain our master.


This is especially important because there's a growing trend of people rejecting the current brand of capitalism. From the Arab Spring (against thieving dictators who pillaged their own countries) to the Spanish and Portuguese Indignados (inspired by this book, the protests in Greece against the futile and destructive "austerity measures", even Israel is protesting... It seems like the populace is no longer believing that There Is No Alternative. And it's not just hippies anymore.

So, it is really important to demonize and ridiculize these people. To make it look like they're just a bunch of clowns with no real plan. What they demand -- to put democracy ahead of financial power -- is so unimaginable that the news media are pretending they're not hearing it.

It's like when Warren Buffett said that the rich like himself ought to be taxed more. It's something that he had said for years, but people weren't listening. Now, though, with the financial crises that have been going on for years, never ending and all blending in a single continual crisis, that message is being heard. So instantly there was a desperate counter attack organized, trying to paint Mr. Buffett as a communist. Which is silly.

We've been living for so long in a world where a bunch of institutions -- mostly the WTO, IMF, and others -- were allowing speculators to overrule democracies and where excessive consanguinity between the three milieus of politicians, businessmen and journalists allowed to dismantle and pillage the wealth of the nation for the profit of a few; with nobody credible objecting. Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, any voice that argued for keeping checks and balances over capitalism was easily dismissed. We were getting a trip back in time to the practices of the late 19th century.

The risk is that this gilded situation might stop. The Tea Party movements are proponents of the status quo -- the only thing they want is to keep dismantling the state ever faster so as to allow the unmitigated rule of wealth wreck the lives of 95% of the population. They are fools, sheep clamoring for wolves to be crowned lords of the herd, so of course they are to be coddled for as long as they are needed. The Outraged and Wall Street Occupiers are a very real threat, so they have to be harshly repressed and cruelly mocked. The Cultists of Mammon will do everything they can to stop them.

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Mr. T said:

Some pic of a jeep with a big radar


Nothing a direct RPG hit or even a simple frag grenade can't fix. This thing is intended more as less-lethal crowd control at medium range, and it produces only a skin-deep burning sensation. It's simply impossible to pack a power source powerful inside the hull of a truck to make it really lethal/effective on a real battlefield against mortars, bazookas, anti-materiel rifles and such other "niceties". At most we're talking about a few kW of effective microwave power.

Also, unless the crew itself is armed and the vehicle armored, even a few well-placed M-16 rounds will cripple it if the power source/electronics are damaged. No sane military commander would seriously deploy it against a mob armed with real weapons and intent on taking names.

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Csonicgo said:
Comments like these are very shallow since there's no really good way to communicate freely other than actual voice that doesn't have a wall-street hand attached.

I was just zapping and on CNN in Spanish they were talking about OWS and one of the people being interviewed was this guy with glasses and a pig-like face from the Cato Institute that was saying something like "but look, these guys are complaining about what the companies are doing through cell phones... and who makes the cell phones and provides the services?" That is, fear mongering that such complaints mean being "anti-business" and without any consciousness that people, workers and users also "make the cell phones". He was trying to put more of the blame on the state, and less on the companies to say the OWS movement is misled.

It reminds me there was some debate here about treating cell phone services as a public service (as per traditional phones)... not surprising.

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The Cato Institute is another thing created and funded by the Koch brothers.

It serves as Big Business' organ of propaganda. They were quick to ridicule Warren Buffett, who is obviously a communist and a clown, when he said that the wealthy had never been less taxed than they are now and that they could and should contribute more to the society that allowed them to rise so high.

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Maes said:

Nothing a direct RPG hit or even a simple frag grenade can't fix. This thing is intended more as less-lethal crowd control at medium range, and it produces only a skin-deep burning sensation. It's simply impossible to pack a power source powerful inside the hull of a truck to make it really lethal/effective on a real battlefield against mortars, bazookas, anti-materiel rifles and such other "niceties". At most we're talking about a few kW of effective microwave power.

Also, unless the crew itself is armed and the vehicle armored, even a few well-placed M-16 rounds will cripple it if the power source/electronics are damaged. No sane military commander would seriously deploy it against a mob armed with real weapons and intent on taking names.


I'm pretty sure you can't get RPGs and grenades in America

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Mr. T said:

I'm pretty sure you can't get RPGs and grenades in America


You mean for the average sheeple.

Criminal gangs have no problem getting hold of whatever they want regardless of what "gun control laws" might say, although grenades and RPGs are more of "specialty weapons" to use e.g. against armored cash transports. For your run-of-the-mill drive-by, AK-47s, Uzis or plain old shotguns loaded with buckshot (that you can even buy at convenience stores) will usually suffice, and anything more powerful would be unwieldy/overkill

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This should have happened years ago, before the noose was tied so tightly. Now with the media consolidated, anti-protest/anti-freedom laws on the books everywhere, and an eroded constitution, we get angry and find we can't fully express it. I am sure more than a few are going to be surprised by what is gotten away with in the oppression of this movement.

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I haven't seen much of this, but from what little coverage I have seen it seems like another directionless protest, which means that the media is doing a good job at disguising whatever motive's it has, I guess.

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DeathevokatioN said:

I haven't seen much of this, but from what little coverage I have seen it seems like another directionless protest, which means that the media is doing a good job at disguising whatever motive's it has, I guess.


precisely.

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Mr. T said:

http://bbccupholder.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ads-hummer.jpg?w=300&h=278

This is a microwave weapon created by military-industrial complex. Good luck with your arsenal of semi-auto M16s when this thing is cooking you from the inside-out.

A couple of bullets in the klystron/magnetron (at the end of that A-frame overhanging the cab) will put it out of action.

Quasar said:

. . .we get angry and find we can't fully express it. I am sure more than a few are going to be surprised by what is gotten away with in the oppression of this movement.

I hope the authorities don't crack down too hard - we both know what can happen when the oppressed lose their fear and find their voices.

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Well, if the people of the USA didn't manage to mount a decent resistance/system change in the 30s where the Great Depression literally starved thousands to death, then they'll never will.

The apparent quick recovery pushed by WWII managed to mask part of the problems (by replacing them with whole ones), but this sort of total economy-boosting war would be impossible to wage today, when the average international missions -professional- soldier earns more than the EU per-capita average, and mass conscription can't be used as a quick'n dirty way to lower apparent unemployment.

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They can arrest all the people they want, but that won't make the problems go away. It's just another form of kicking the can down the road.

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