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Processingcontrol

Evilution vs. Plutonia

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Plutonia... used to be that I just wouldn't play TNT, but I've played it on and off over the last few months and have gained a different respect for it. I still can't stand a few maps (Map08, Map11, Map22, among others), but certain maps that I just didn't like for whatever reason before have been more enjoyable this time around (Map12, Map15).

In the end, though, I have a preference for Plutonia's tougher gameplay, as well as its map design. TNT has some maps that feel too empty for me to really enjoy them.

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I used to like Plutonia better, I thought TNT was boring but now I like TNT better. I didn't play either ALOT so I don't think that I got sick of Plutonia, I think my preferences just changed. Like someone already said, TNT's episodes feel more epic. Plutonia starts off better though I must say. The first few levels of TNT are a grind for me. Plutonia does have good levels. Hunted is a great level from Plutonia.

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Plut sucks. TNT sucks harder. Can't hold a candle to the original IWADs. Always ticked me off that people made money off of these poor excuses for WADs when there was equally good if not better stuff available for free on the net. I think I played all the way through both of 'em when they came out and couldn't believe how non-commercial they were. Sometimes I load 'em up just so I know what people are talkin' about here but get totally bored really quick. The textures of TNT look like ass.

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NaturalTvventy said:

I think I played all the way through both of 'em when they came out and couldn't believe how non-commercial they were.


Define "non-commercial".

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NaturalTvventy said:

Plut sucks. TNT sucks harder. Can't hold a candle to the original IWADs. Always ticked me off that people made money off of these poor excuses for WADs when there was equally good if not better stuff available for free on the net. I think I played all the way through both of 'em when they came out and couldn't believe how non-commercial they were. Sometimes I load 'em up just so I know what people are talkin' about here but get totally bored really quick. The textures of TNT look like ass.


x1000.
The lousy custom textures(organic lettuce) and the painfully "cool" maps. Dudes were at the right place at the right time. Sad but true.

Though one map will stay with me forever -> the one with the "time machine" where you warp into 2 different realities of the same map. Hats off - this one was the bomb.

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_bruce_ said:

the painfully "cool" maps.

Can you elaborate on this please? I've always considered myself to be quite a cool guy, that enjoys cool Doom maps. ;)

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DeathevokatioN said:

Can you elaborate on this please? I've always considered myself to be quite a cool guy, that enjoys cool Doom maps. ;)


Well, learn a lot you must.

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_bruce_ said:

...the painfully "cool" maps.

This also makes no sense to me. Where are these maps trying to be cool? What is an example of a map that is trying to be cool but has failed? How is this causing you pain?

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Well, I've played both megawads, but I won't make comparisons to either of them, except for the difficulty difference, with TNT being easy while Plutonia being hard. I'll just do a take on the two megawads to see which I prefer.

TNT: I can say that yes, the megawad may seem like a patchwork due to the levels being designed by a group of mappers instead of one, two, or even four in the case of Doom 2. There were some ugly maps, and some that were annoying, but it has its share of maps that look interesting. The techbase maps were good, and some of the industrial and metal themed maps as well. One thing I liked is how there's more versimilitude in the maps, like Map19 for instance with the computer panels, offices, and even a truck apart from the realistic warehouse. The hell maps were more well designed too, and overall, the megawad's not too difficult to go through. The new textures were ok, even if some were awful to look at. It's got original music among using some Doom 2, so that's an added plus.

Plutonia: Where do I begin with this megawad? Well, the maps were done by two authors, so there's consistency in design and style throughout the entirety of the megawad. It uses tracks from Doom and Doom 2, so it does give an air of nostalgia while being something fresh at the same time. I did say I won't make comparisons to TNT, but yeah, the level design of Plutonia is more abstract than TNT, however, it is abstract in qualitative form opposed to badly designed maps back at its time. Props to the Casalis for doing maps that aren't realistic but with thought out design and style. They're also unique in a good way. Now, yes, there's no doubt that the difficulty of Plutonia is sadistic. There's no learning curve as in Doom, Doom 2 and TNT, all the maps are sheer murder with very little to distinguish in terms of difficulty. Some may hate it, some may like it, but to me, the Casalis intended it to be a challenging megawad, and I thought it was entertaining. It's like Thy Flesh Consumned in that sense, only more insane. Personally, I felt that if it hadn't been for the Casalis' trailblazing, HR, Alien Vendetta, Kama Sutra, and other megawads famous for their knockabout fights with heavyweight enemies wouldn't exist, so I give that megawad a huge credit.

So in conclusion, I think both megawads are awesome, although I considered Plutonia to be the real winner.

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I have just finished Plutonia too now and I have a more spherical view.
Well, actually it's the toughness of Plutonia and maybe the brownish stuff and not so interesting starting levels that disappoints you at the beginning (while Evilution makes you want to play more at the start) but you don't need to pass more than 3 levels to realize how much good this WAD is.

Yes, the maps are consistent through the whole 32 maps, no random abstract bad designed maps like in Evilution, the maps are great from beginning to end, the enemies are strategically placed that makes it very challenging and interesting, nowadays I am a better player to appreciate such hard maps (although, I was seeing the same motive. A big area with chaingunners in a half circle and always retreat. It was either chaingunners or skeletons. Because these are always baddasses in such open spaces and strategically place where you can't fight directly but have to hide or retreat. Kinda became annoying but still not bad)

I think now that objectively Plutonia is far better than Evilution, though I am not sure which I would enjoy better to play. One is easier but abstract and bigger ugly maps later where you are lost, the other more consistent, not so large maps really, but tough with predictable chaingunner situations. I can't decide but at least I give them an equal position.

I might try Plutonia 2 now. Don't remember if I have ever played it before.

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Plutonia 2 looks very good from what I've seen of it, and I'll probably play it once I finish going through the community chest series. Does anyone have an idea of how difficult it is compared to the original?

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I think Plutonia was made for multiplayer, while Evilution was made for singleplayer. It's a good wad suite considering the popularity of both markets at the time, but maybe they should have called Plutonia "Deathmatch" or something more appropriate.

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Marcaek said:

What makes you think so? I don't get that impression at all.


Evilution uses tougher monsters more sparingly in the first levels than Plutonia. To me, that suggests a friendlier introduction. Just a theory though.

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Gunner said:

I think Plutonia was made for multiplayer, while Evilution was made for singleplayer. It's a good wad suite considering the popularity of both markets at the time, but maybe they should have called Plutonia "Deathmatch" or something more appropriate.

This is highly unlikely. Some of maps don't even have deathmatch starts.

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Processingcontrol said:

Plutonia 2 looks very good from what I've seen of it, and I'll probably play it once I finish going through the community chest series. Does anyone have an idea of how difficult it is compared to the original?


I have just finished PL2 and I'd say it's not much harder than Plutonia. Maybe it's the same, maybe it's a bit more or a bit less hard, I am not sure.

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I found PL2 played a lot more like a cross between AV\kamasutra than Plutonia, not that it's a bad thing. PRCP was a lot more authentic.

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Plutonia's better for more hectic gameplay and concentration on small to medium maps with tricky monster setups, whereas TNT's better for more adventure and a sense of progression plus the themes are more diverse. So TNT is my favorite of the two.

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