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Spinesplitter

Things That WAD Designers Do That Irritate You

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Handrails are serious trend since Plutonia, but more skilled WAD designers do know a solution that makes handrails behave like just another 24+ units high sector if they use the self-referencing sector trick. PROBLEM SOLVED!

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Tarnsman said:

Especially on the "city/town/I don't know what the hell they're called" maps in Requiem where you HAVE to go down stairs instead of jumping or you have to go back through a building instead of falling off a bridge because there are damn blocking handrails everywhere.


Looks like the maps by Iikka Keranen. I always thought he placed handrails so that the player wouldn't accidentally go somewhere or do something that broke the illusion of the 3d bridge.

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In some cases (e.g. 40oz's 2nd shot) in Requiem, the handrails are more or less 'required' to make the faux-3D constructs work without HOMing all over the place. A bit show-off-y, but that sort of stuff was seriously novel at the time.

[EDIT] Vordakk'd. D:

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Xaser said:

[EDIT] Vordakk'd. D:

Well yeah I was also about to explain it as well until both of you decided to ruin everything for me and post out of nowhere.

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Snakes said:

If this thread were titled "Thing That WAD Players Do That Irritate You" then I'd have to put this one near the tip-top of the irritation mountain.

I just don't play slaughterwads, it's not like I play them on UV and complain about difficulty. If I know a mapset is hard I usually drop the difficulty, but I try not to.

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Vordakk said:

Looks like the maps by Iikka Keranen. I always thought he placed handrails so that the player wouldn't accidentally go somewhere or do something that broke the illusion of the 3d bridge.

Too bad the handrail spam isn't restricted to the 3d bridges. I understand why they were used there, but crap like this, is what bugs me. Just let me jump down the stairs dang it!

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Tarnsman said:

Too bad the handrail spam isn't restricted to the 3d bridges. I understand why they were used there, but crap like this, is what bugs me. Just let me jump down the stairs dang it!

I don't really see your point. Difficulty can be potentially increased by restricting the player to the narrow stairs with the handrails and not letting him jump off early. I seem to remember Iikka making use of this by placing Revenants and Hell Knights in compromising positions and forcing you to tackle them on their terms. Plus, the effect of those seemingly sloped handrails looked badass back in '96.

Not being able to jump down the stairs seems pretty trivial, honestly.

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In Strife maps, you can make handrails that can be jumped over. There's a line flag for that, makes the line blocking for only 32 units above the floor. (You're supposed to use appropriately-sized railing textures). Of course since it's a Strife features you can't use it in Doom maps (unless mapping for ZDoom).

More accessibly, there's the 3D middle texture thing from Eternity.

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There's also transfer heights (or in vanilla, self referencing sectors), for a similar function albeit with much less capability and a lot more trouble. It could at least work for solid but jumpable handrails though.

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I hate starting a map and seeing a bunch of monsters, all facing the other way. it makes them all just seem really, really dumb.

Also: Zombies facing computer panels. Zombies don't use computers.

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NaturalTvventy said:

Zombies don't use computers.

But cognitive and behavioural remnants! I would imagine that the capacity required for tapping repeatedly against a keyboard is limited enough that it might suit a former human. They might not be able to operate a plasma destabilization unit like they used to but they know damn well how to bash a keyboard.

Give them a couple thousand years and they’ll type out the entire works of Shakespeare.

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- Placing items directly in the path of switches/hallways/doors. Especially irritating if it is a Berserk when I'm at 100+ Health.

- Placing a Green Armor close to where you will go on to find a Blue Armor.

- Lifts that lead you to a face full of monsters, resulting in having to try and shoot them from below, or constantly use the lift to clear the way, all the while getting ravaged with no real way to dodge.

- Archviles that you cannot kill and are only used as a means to revive enemies.

- Peripheral rooms that don't yield any real reward. Basically boring rooms you can just skip without thinking twice about it, other than losing your precious 100% kills. If I can go exploring regions of the map that I don't necessarily need to go through, I want to receive a notable item so that I can feel success in my explorations.

- Placing a weapon only in a secret and placing the ammo all over the map. ESPECIALLY annoying if that extra ammo is required to kill all the enemies.

- Any non-original power-ups. I've come to know and love the few that are there, and I feel that is all that is needed. *Occasionally a new power-up can be fun, for a little.

- Placing 15 Backpacks instead of just using the normal ammo. The Backpack, to me, is a unique item. I always love finding one and it should be used sparingly.

- Placing too many secrets within secrets.

- Secrets that are far too big in proportion with the rest of the map.

- Secrets without ANY indication that there is a secret.

- Monsters that are meant to be killed with infighting. I want to do the killing!

- Enemies in plain areas surrounded by Barrels that are of no danger to you. I have to be very specific here because using Barrels in a unique way is always cool, however using them just to make the incoming Baron/s (or other enemies of course) weaker instead of just using weaker/less enemies is just odd to me.

- Barrels in odd places that are more decoration than anything.

- An Invisibility power-up that is given before/during a fight with anything other than hit-scanners. I feel it only helps against them, and actually hinders me against projectile enemies.

- Spider Masterminds that can kill each other. This has always been so pointless to me. (Or any boss infighting, for that matter)

- Large rooms with hordes of enemies that mostly kill each other before I can really get in the mix.

- Prolonged pitch blackness without Light Amplification Goggles.

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Well downright poor level design (meaning poor monster placement, lame fights, every room is box shaped and lame) and a lack of remote detail are universal pet peeves to every doomer. I won't be interested in the map if there isn't at least some mediocre level of detail in it, sorry. The only exception I give is to Fragport, because even though it lacked detail, it was a genuinely fun PWAD with great action. Other than that, even if it isn't original detail, PLEASE make it look like you spent more than a day on the map. People playing a wad want to be somewhat captivated in it. With all of the effects that zdoom offers today, use them.


1- That being said, my biggest pet peeve is chaingunner traps. It seems like they NEVER EVER EVER EVER get old. Are wad makers are so sadistic that they want to punish you for every little medikit or soulshpere that you find? It seems like whenever I see a reward out in the open, I'm just better off not getting it because the walls around me will drop and chaingunners or revenants will just chew me up.

2- This leads into the next pet peeve. Once in awhile it's nice having some damn health! It enhances the fun factor since you don't have to tiptoe through every fight and make sure you come out untouched (since you have 2/100 health with no stimpacks in sight in most wads). Sure, I like being on the brink of death here and there with hellknights about to corner you or some shit - that's a part of the game too, but please make sure the player gets some health before he encounters hordes of monsters (especially hitscan zombies.) It's just poor design that takes the fun factor away since I'm just gonna reset my health to 100 if the mapper is that stingy.

3- Navigation. Ok I pressed a switch.... what the hell did it do? Looks like I have to go through the whole level and find out. (10 minutes later) ahh! The little crevice in this alcove near the entrance opened up! Now I can continue. It's nice playing non-linear maps, but some maps just take forever to navigate.

4-100000 secreted sectors. Hey, I found a secret. Whoa, I think I just found 50 secrets! Just label 1 sector the secret please.

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HXCpr0n said:

1- That being said, my biggest pet peeve is chaingunner traps. It seems like they NEVER EVER EVER EVER get old. Are wad makers are so sadistic that they want to punish you for every little medikit or soulshpere that you find? It seems like whenever I see a reward out in the open, I'm just better off not getting it because the walls around me will drop and chaingunners or revenants will just chew me up.

2- This leads into the next pet peeve. Once in awhile it's nice having some damn health! It enhances the fun factor since you don't have to tiptoe through every fight and make sure you come out untouched (since you have 2/100 health with no stimpacks in sight in most wads). Sure, I like being on the brink of death here and there with hellknights about to corner you or some shit - that's a part of the game too, but please make sure the player gets some health before he encounters hordes of monsters (especially hitscan zombies.) It's just poor design that takes the fun factor away since I'm just gonna reset my health to 100 if the mapper is that stingy.


Sorry, but these are not problems related to the maps. Learn to play and dodge better, have better reaction times for these traps, or just play on an easier difficulty. You're one of that kind of people that piss me of. I bet you're playing on UV and won't change the difficulty if your life depended on it.

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killer2 said:

Sorry, but these are not problems related to the maps. Learn to play and dodge better, have better reaction times for these traps, or just play on an easier difficulty. You're one of that kind of people that piss me of. I bet you're playing on UV and won't change the difficulty if your life depended on it.

To be fair, chaingun snipers are a total dick move. So are well-hidden revenants that can still shoot you.

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rf` said:

To be fair, chaingun snipers are a total dick move. So are well-hidden revenants that can still shoot you.

He said chaingunner and revenant traps. He was probably referring to monster closets. Also, chaingunner and revenant snipers are only a dick move only on vanilla or boom maps. On ZDoom maps they're pretty easy because you can shoot them with the chaingun from a much bigger distance with the help of freelook.

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Starting the map on a 48x48 lowering pillar in the ceiling surrounded by a dozen chaingunners that can all see you and all start firing at your ankles before you can see where they are.

Placing bonus pickups in a deliberately frustrating manner. A good example is E1M1 where most people will get two useless armor bonuses before picking up the green armor, but you still have enough room to navigate around and come back down with 102% armor. But when you have to go through a soulsphere before you can reach a medikit... What's the point?

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Not to mention this ZDoom bad habit, which is console-style boss arenas:

- a large room, octagonal shape, with supply niches
- doors shut behind you until the boss dies
- central and outer acid pits, to give it a shape
- different music during the fight
- several waves of monsters teleporting at you, with visible ENEMY COUNTERS.
- HEALTH BAR so you know how much you have until you defeat the boss!OMGZ

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Gez said:

Placing bonus pickups in a deliberately frustrating manner. A good example is E1M1 where most people will get two useless armor bonuses before picking up the green armor, but you still have enough room to navigate around and come back down with 102% armor. But when you have to go through a soulsphere before you can reach a medikit... What's the point?


How about that secret in MAP06 the crusher with all the barrels in it, and the megasphere and megaarmor? For all the times I've played that map I don't think Ive ever picked up that blue armor.

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40oz said:

How about that secret in MAP06 the crusher with all the barrels in it, and the megasphere and megaarmor? For all the times I've played that map I don't think Ive ever picked up that blue armor.

I remember that when I used to play DooM 2 regularly and didn't know about PWAD's, I would generally pick the 2 megaspheres normally and then return for the blue armor at the end of the level. Not that useless in my opinion.

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killer2 said:

Sorry, but these are not problems related to the maps. Learn to play and dodge better, have better reaction times for these traps, or just play on an easier difficulty. You're one of that kind of people that piss me of. I bet you're playing on UV and won't change the difficulty if your life depended on it.

You're a troll, right? You've got to be one considering how many dumb comments like this you're making.

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Processingcontrol said:

You're a troll, right? You've got to be one considering how many dumb comments like this you're making.

No I am not a troll. Sure, I made a rushed assumption he was playing on UV, and if he was playing on HNTR or ITYTD I may sound like a troll, but I highly doubt that's the case. So anyway, traps are great. They improve your reaction times very well. When I first started playing I used to not even notice traps untill my health was below 20. Now, I generally rush backwards (or forwards) as soon as a trap is triggered, and deal with the enemies from a safe distance. So if my first post sounded trollish, I'm sorry, but all I wanted to say is that traps are great for testing your reaction time and that if you can't play something on a high difficulty, you should try a lower one.

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NaturalTvventy said:

I hate starting a map and seeing a bunch of monsters, all facing the other way. it makes them all just seem really, really dumb.

Given how they will endlessly walk into the same wall if you happen to be standing on the other side of it, I never got the impression any of them were particularly intelligent... ;)

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MajorRawne said:

Given how they will endlessly walk into the same wall if you happen to be standing on the other side of it, I never got the impression any of them were particularly intelligent... ;)


I always wondered why they always walked in place before noticing you too. It's like they're dancing to pass the time before seeing you or something. They got like demon Ipods or some shit with them while waiting lol.

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Imagine if you go for years without playing Doom, those monsters are still out there in some imaginery realm, pacing on the spot, waiting for you to come back.

Always there. Moving on the spot.

Waiting.

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killer2 said:

He said chaingunner and revenant traps. He was probably referring to monster closets. Also, chaingunner and revenant snipers are only a dick move only on vanilla or boom maps. On ZDoom maps they're pretty easy because you can shoot them with the chaingun from a much bigger distance with the help of freelook.


This isn't because of free look apparently. In Vanilla Doom, player and bad guys hitscan attacks have the same max range of 2048 units.

In ZDoom, player hitscans apparently have a range of 8192 units, while the bad guy’s hitscan range remains at 2048. Other ports keep both at 2048 units.

EDIT: This is easy to observe on Mt Erebus (Doom1 E3M6) with the automap on. In ZDoom the player's hitscans can hit the left border wall (the red brick border behind the invulnerability sphere, about 3400 unit's away) from the player start spot. In Vanilla and other ports, the player’s hitscans don't reach.

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