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MRB_Doom

Russia launches probe to Mars moon

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It's nice to see other countries with interstellar ambitions now that America has totally given up. Biblical reasons, I'm sure.

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the article said:

Six volunteers were locked away for 520 days from sunshine and loved ones in a cramped capsule in a Moscow car park, in an experiment that was intended to find out how human beings could cope with long-duration spaceflights.

...AND WHAT? This is a rather poignant issue to study and discuss for sure, but that's the ass end of the damn article.

sigh

Technician said:

It's nice to see other countries with interstellar ambitions now that America has totally given up. Biblical reasons, I'm sure.

Well not quite, it's a "not MY tax dollars!!!" issue. But our pathetic science education is absolutely because of biblical reasons. And I suppose our lack of will in funding NASA is part and parcel because of that actually...heh you may be right anyway.

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Quast said:

Well not quite, it's a "not MY tax dollars!!!" issue. But our pathetic science education is absolutely because of biblical reasons. And I suppose our lack of will in funding NASA is part and parcel because of that actually...heh you may be right anyway.


While I won't argue that entirely, it's worth noting that even in areas where Bible-thumping is kept to a minimum, science is being largely neglected in favor of other subjects that are used more often in day-to-day life... oh, and some horeshit about standardized testing. It's really pathetic to think of how low the bar is in this country.

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... anyone remember project Natal with that kid that could talk to you??? That is the practical education having AI that can talk to you. I've seen Morrowind modders write some pretty good AI that could conversate with you no matter how dumb you tried to make the conversation. Now put that into a character that can emote...


Anyway that's beside the point... So once Russia is successful America will have a president that will say not on my watch! Then we'll be fighting over Mars and Space Marines will be born.

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Quast said:

...AND WHAT? This is a rather poignant issue to study and discuss for sure, but that's the ass end of the damn article.

sigh


Well not quite, it's a "not MY tax dollars!!!" issue. But our pathetic science education is absolutely because of biblical reasons. And I suppose our lack of will in funding NASA is part and parcel because of that actually...heh you may be right anyway.


The thing at the ass-end of the article was just mentioning that simulated mission that's been in the news the last few days because it just ended. Just another case of the news sticking something on the end to connect it to something else recent so it matters more to those people who always whine about things not being worthy of the news.

Yes, it was probably more interesting. Basically, they had no ill effects from their isolation, unlike the time they tried it with a Canadian woman in the team. One of the Russians tried to kiss her and it started a fight, cancelling the mission. This time it was all men. They did fake work and played Xbox.

As far as I can tell, your lack of funding from NASA is thanks to the same sorts of people in Canada who whine about NASA: "spend the money solving problems here on Earth first!" Bastards.

Now we're OT. The cool part of this is it's designed to be a sample-return mission according to the article.

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Aliotroph? said:

As far as I can tell, your lack of funding from NASA is thanks to the same sorts of people in Canada who whine about NASA: "spend the money solving problems here on Earth first!" Bastards.

Ironically, space may solve Earth's depleting resource and energy crisis.

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Aliotroph? said:

The thing at the ass-end of the article was just mentioning that simulated mission that's been in the news the last few days because it just ended.

Ah, I did not realize that, thanks.

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Quast said:

Well not quite, it's a "not MY tax dollars!!!" issue.


Yeah. They are FAR better spent by giving them to any trigger-happy wannabe merc in Iraq playing target practice with children's heads and pretending he's defending "democracy" or somesuch.

OTOH....does that mean that the Doom Marine was/will actually be a Spetsnatz, carry a Putin badge and gulps down vodka between levels? :-p

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I realise I know nothing about building spacecraft, but this thing looks like it was made out of several Meccano sets, gift wrapping paper and various random objects serving as makeshift whatever:-



Not the most impressive-looking piece of machinery I've seen. Not for an alleged $163 million. But if it furthers man's understanding of the mars' moon and the universe, good for the Ruskies.

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DoomUK said:

I realise I know nothing about building spacecraft, but this thing looks like it was made out of several Meccano sets, gift wrapping paper and various random objects serving as makeshift whatever:-


It's a clamorous case of Reality Is Unrealistic: almost any other real satellites or space equipment that you can find will also have this skeletal and "gift wrapping paper" appearance, including the Apollo Lunar Module. That's simply because they are designed to be essential functional in their own environment, not to look sleek or cool or like a 50s B-Movie.

They don't need aerodynamic shapes, and they don't even need to withstand the forces that are applied to a small Cessna or even a glider, mechanically speaking (if any of them were to move through the atmosphere at even 100 mph, they would break apart from their "airframe" stresses in a matter of minutes).

They just need thermal and E-M shielding (that's what the "gift wrap" thing is for, actually a specialized version of a Space Blanket).

The tough parts of getting it into orbit and surviving the enormous forces and air resistance are handled by the giant space missiles and the payload capsules, which are actually built to withstand just that sort of abuse (well, when they don't blow up, that's it). Once in space it is deployed in relative calm and pretty much floats in the void with no resistance (well...collisions with cosmic garbage apart).

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Maes said:

It's a clamorous case of Reality Is Unrealistic: almost any other real satellites or space equipment that you can find will also have this skeletal and "gift wrapping paper" appearance, including the Apollo Lunar Module. That's simply because they are designed to be essential functional in their own environment, not to look sleek or cool or like a 50s B-Movie.

They don't need aerodynamic shapes, and they don't even need to withstand the forces that are applied to a small Cessna or even a glider, mechanically speaking (if any of them were to move through the atmosphere at even 100 mph, they would break apart from their "airframe" stresses in a matter of minutes).

They just need thermal and E-M shielding (that's what the "gift wrap" thing is for, actually a specialized version of a Space Blanket).

The tough parts of getting it into orbit and surviving the enormous forces and air resistance are handled by the giant space missiles and the payload capsules, which are actually built to withstand just that sort of abuse (well, when they don't blow up, that's it). Once in space it is deployed in relative calm and pretty much floats in the void with no resistance (well...collisions with cosmic garbage apart).

No, I get that it doesn't have to look like something out of Star Wars or Star Trek. I'm just saying, it looks a little ghetto compared to NASA's efforts with similar machines. But again, what do I know?

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DoomUK said:

No, I get that it doesn't have to look like something out of Star Wars or Star Trek. I'm just saying, it looks a little ghetto compared to NASA's efforts with similar machines. But again, what do I know?


Reminds me of the old joke about writing on paper in space. "NASA invested millions of dollars into engineering a pen that could work in micro-gravity. The Russians used pencils." (For the non-joke version, see here.)

A lot of stuff made by the Russian space agency are ghetto compared to NASA. That's because they prioritized "making sturdy stuff that actually works" over "making cool-looking stuff that'll get geeks to mail their representatives to keep funding going on". I remember an interview of an American astronaut who went on Mir and was astounded that he could put on his Russian-made spacesuit all by himself quickly, while the American equivalent demanded the help of two other guys to be fitted, like a medieval armor. He'd commented that a lot of things were clever use of tried-and-true approaches instead of overengineered nerdfests. Basically, the difference was that when faced with a problem to solve, the Americans went "what new thing can I invent to fix it" while the Russians went "what old thing can I recycle to fix it".

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DoomUK said:

No, I get that it doesn't have to look like something out of Star Wars or Star Trek. I'm just saying, it looks a little ghetto compared to NASA's efforts with similar machines. But again, what do I know?


Perhaps you are thinking of manned stuff like the ISS or satellites housing delicate equipment like the Hubble telescope. Those do indeed need some degree of actual protection.

Paradoxically, satellites built for orbiting Earth now need more armouring and protection due to all the floating debris and stuff, and are thus much less likely to have a "ghetto look" than one meant to travel through the Solar System towards another planet. If the weight and cost of adding additional materials/weight are not justifiable, NASA or ESA or Russians will all happily avoid it.

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Dammit Maes, do you realise what you've done? You linked to TV tropes! Nobody will be posting on here for months now.

Also that thing about the fake Mars mission in a car park seems like a pretty badly designed experiment, not featuring zero gravity, radiation, extremes of temperature etc that will be experienced in real spaceflight.

Of course it was probably primarily designed to test the psychological effects of isolation for that length of time, but zero gravity at least will come with a whole set of problems (like the need to always secure equipment, make sure liquids don't escape etc) that simply don't exist on earth.

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Окончательный Дум
гибель II
гибель 3
гибель 3:Voskresenie zla

I'm sorry, I just had to do that.

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Technician said:

It's nice to see other countries with interstellar ambitions now that America has totally given up. Biblical reasons, I'm sure.


Seem more like the fact that America has the largest military budget in the world and we're not willing to pinch a bit off in order to give NASA more funding.

And to DoomUK: Not impressive? That's what all the unmanned crafts we've sent to space more or less look like. Don't expect it to look as shiny and future-y as they appear in movies and video games.

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Some of the apparently ghetto appearance of Russian spacecraft is probably due to their use of designs that just look a bit alien to Western eyes. For example, this looks like a pressure cooker on top of some hamster wheels.

It's already been mentioned they like to try and recycle old parts. This is why their control rooms are not only full of CRTs, but full of mismatched ones that look like they scrounged them from anywhere nearby.

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Weight itself is also a huge issue in the design of these things. Adding extraneous dodads and gizmos to make it look flashy is not the goal because every single extra kilo needed to be lifted into orbit adds substantially to the cost of the mission.

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Technician said:

What?

The original post was stating this as a doom reference, saying that it has begun IE meaning demons are going to come from the probe.

Us, as doom players, are prepared to fight said demons.

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Um...whoops.

At least they didn't completely lose the probe due to failing to do metric/imperial conversions properly.

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Technician said:

That's what happens when you don't have Jesus on your side.


Damn. All that stuff for nothing?!

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