DB2 linedef problem

[Imacleverusername]

I'm a map-making newbie, and I'm having a problem with linedefs.
I've checked the 'Unpassable' and 'Block Monsters' checkboxes, but enemies can still see me through them, and their projectiles still fly through them.
Is there something I'm missing?

[Mechadon]

Impassible lines and Monster Blocking lines only block thing movements (and in the case of monster blocking lines, they only block monsters and not players). They won't block monster sight or any projectiles/hitscans or any other monster attacks though.

There might be a couple of ways to have a transparent but blocking "wall" like you want. But it really all depends on the situation and the map format your using.

I think you might be able to do it with a self-referencing sector. If those don't intimidate you, give it a try. I know for certain that you can use that method to create an invisible-yet-blocking "wall". You may be able to use it to block sound/sight checks on monsters as well, but I think you'd need to have the floor of the self-referenced sector go all the way up to the ceiling. Sorry for not being able to give a definite answer on that, I don't usually use self-referencing sectors in that capacity enough to remember how they work. But if that works out for you, it should work for just about any port your mapping for, including vanilla Doom.

[Imacleverusername]

Nonono, I don't want an invisible wall effect sort of thing.
I made a wall using linedefs, and monsters can still see me and shoot me through the wall, and it's not meant to be translucent, I just want to make a wall that enemies and the player can't fire through, but I don't know how.

[Vordakk]

Imacleverusername said:

Nonono, I don't want an invisible wall effect sort of thing.
I made a wall using linedefs, and monsters can still see me and shoot me through the wall, and it's not meant to be translucent, I just want to make a wall that enemies and the player can't fire through, but I don't know how.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're just drawing a straight line and then checking ticboxes in the linedef properties menu. This isn't a good way to make a wall, at least for a beginner.

Try creating the wall by making a sector. The sector will be long and thin, like a wall would be. Like say, 16 pixels thick by 256 pixels long. Then raise that wall sector's height until neither you nor the monsters can see over it.

If you fire a weapon the monsters will still hear you, unless you raise the wall to the ceiling and make it flush on both sides. If you want to make it so that monsters can't hear you beyond a low wall, you'll need to check BOTH sides of the wall as "block sound", not just one.

EDIT: Oh yeah, or just tag the monsters as "deaf". Duh. Sorry, I'm a visual learner.

[Imacleverusername]

Vordakk said:

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're just drawing a straight line and then checking ticboxes in the linedef properties menu. This isn't a good way to make a wall, at least for a beginner.

Try creating the wall by making a sector. The sector will be long and thin, like a wall would be. Like say, 16 pixels thick by 256 pixels long. Then raise that wall sector's height until neither you nor the monsters can see over it.

If you fire a weapon the monsters will still hear you, unless you raise the wall to the ceiling and make it flush on both sides. If you want to make it so that monsters can't hear you beyond a low wall, you'll need to check BOTH sides of the wall as "block sound", not just one.

That's not what I'm doing, I'm creating a four-sided square within the main sector using linedefs, and texturing every side, and changing it into a sector doesn't fix anything.
My problem is when I shoot, my bullets go through the wall as if it's not there, same thing with enemy projectiles.

[PRIMEVAL]

It sounds like you're putting in mid section textures, which doesn't make a wall. Do you have any screenies to show us what you're doing exactly?

[Mechadon]

Ok I decided to stop being lazy and make you a test map.

http://mekworx.phenomer.net/mekastuff/wads/blockingtest.wad

Since I wasn't 100% sure if a self-referencing sector would work or not (as I hardly have a need for a see-thru yet totally blocking wall), I decided to test it out to make sure it'd work.

Turns out it doesn't really work, heh. Well, it doesn't work in Chocolate Doom or PrBoom+, but it does work in ZDoom (I'm assuming because things are infinitely tall in the those ports but not ZDoom). Also as I was thinking, if you pull the floor all the way up to the ceiling, you'll get a HOM (not good). But there's still a way to do it.

If you'll look in the test map, there are two chambers. The one on the left blocks everything BUT sounds while the one on the right is just using an impassible line. All I did was put a 128px high wall right next to the midtexture grate and then remove all of it's textures. Pretty simple actually, though it has drawbacks. You don't want the player to be able to view the top of the "blocking" invisible sector or you'll get a massive flat bleed. You can get around this in numerous way though, such as making the floor be 1px away from the ceiling height. However if you want to have flying monsters be able to fly over the "blocking" wall, you'll have to leave enough space for them. To showcase that, I put in two Caco demons in each chamber; both will wake up, but the one of the left is the only one that can fly over the midtexture/blocking wall. So as I said, it's a tad bit limited, but it gets the job done provided it works out for your situation.

So this blocks thing movements, projectiles, and hitscans. It won't block sounds though (I set the monsters to "deaf") so they'll only wake up via sight. Unfortunately the Doom map format doesn't provide a way to sounds/sight/projectiles/hitscans on a single linedef. The only way you can do it, that I'm aware of, is to use the method I described. There might be other, more hacky ways to do it...but you'll have to ask someone else besides me if so. If your using a more advanced map format (eg. ZDoom, UDMF), there are probably flags that you can use to block all of those things you want.

Hope that helps!

*edit*

Vordakk pretty much beat me to the punch, heh. I forgot about sound blocking lines though (I never use those either, oddly enough). Use those and that should pretty much solve all of your problems.

[Imacleverusername]

PRIMEVAL said:

It sounds like you're putting in mid section textures, which doesn't make a wall. Do you have any screenies to show us what you're doing exactly?

http://i.imgur.com/ShKDB.png
http://i.imgur.com/KgT8s.png
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, this is just a sample room I created, I want the wall in the middle to be an obstacle between you and the cyberdemon, but I don't want him to be able to see the player through the wall, and I don't want my bullets and his rockets to pass through, but I don't know how to make that so.

[Mechadon]

Ok I see what your trying to do now. You weren't kidding when you said your were a mapping newbie. But no worries, everyone starts somewhere!

What your doing is trying to place a texture on the MIDDLE part of a single line, thinking that will make your wall, correct? Here's another example map for you:

http://mekworx.phenomer.net/mekastuff/wads/newbexample.wad

Be sure to download and open this map in Doom Builder so you can see what I did.

To clarify, midtextures on 2-sided lines aren't walls per-se; they won't give you the properties you seek. Instead you need to do one of two things:

1 - Raise your middle square's floor height up high enough so that it will block the Cyberdemon's sight. If you raise the floor, you'll need to apply textures to the LOWER part of the lines. On the flip-side if you lower the ceiling, you'll need to apply textures to the UPPER part of the lines. Or...
2 - Delete the middle sector which will completely block any viewing through it. This will turn the lines of your inner square sector into 1-sided lines.

Either of these will work for what you want.

Remember this: 2-sided lines require upper and/or lower textures if one or both of their sides are exposed while 1-sided lines require middle textures. This holds true in most cases (I won't go into midtextures as that might confuse you more). Be sure to take advantage of 3D mode if you can. That will definitely help you in understanding the whole UPPER/MIDDLE/LOWER texture thing.

You would really benefit from a mapping guide. I pretty much learned on my own years ago, so I can't make any solid suggestions. But the Doom Builder site has this page with some video guides that might help.

[Imacleverusername]

Mechadon said:

Ok I see what your trying to do now. You weren't kidding when you said your were a mapping newbie. But no worries, everyone starts somewhere!

What your doing is trying to place a texture on the MIDDLE part of a single line, thinking that will make your wall, correct? Here's another example map for you:

http://mekworx.phenomer.net/mekastuff/wads/newbexample.wad

Be sure to download and open this map in Doom Builder so you can see what I did.

To clarify, midtextures on 2-sided lines aren't walls per-se; they won't give you the properties you seek. Instead you need to do one of two things:

1 - Raise your middle square's floor height up high enough so that it will block the Cyberdemon's sight. If you raise the floor, you'll need to apply textures to the LOWER part of the lines. On the flip-side if you lower the ceiling, you'll need to apply textures to the UPPER part of the lines. Or...
2 - Delete the middle sector which will completely block any viewing through it. This will turn the lines of your inner square sector into 1-sided lines.

Either of these will work for what you want.

Remember this: 2-sided lines require upper and/or lower textures if one or both of their sides are exposed while 1-sided lines require middle textures. This holds true in most cases (I won't go into midtextures as that might confuse you more). Be sure to take advantage of 3D mode if you can. That will definitely help you in understanding the whole UPPER/MIDDLE/LOWER texture thing.

You would really benefit from a mapping guide. I pretty much learned on my own years ago, so I can't make any solid suggestions. But the Doom Builder site has this page with some video guides that might help.

Alright, I get it now, thanks a lot.