how much do you exploit quirks and bugs during normal play?

[Face23785]

Another conversation made me think of this. I'm sure it's been discussed before. However, I may just be a moron but I never have much luck with the search function. Even then, people whine and bitch that you bumped an old thread. Anyway...

How much do you exploit game quirks and bugs when playing Doom? I guess this can depend on what you consider quirks and bugs. I suppose I'm mainly thinking about tactics like arch-vile jumping or rocket jumping, things that people have discovered over the years that weren't really intended to be used. I can't really think of any tactics I exploit, more or less playing the game as it was originally designed, with a few exceptions that come to mind such as rushing a Pain Elemental to prevent it from spitting out Lost Souls.

Not talking about speedrunning here, then you just do what you gotta do. I'm talking about just casual play.

[Reisal]

I don't, but sometimes straferunning is all I do if that counts as an "exploit".

[Khorus]

Vanilla gameplay quirks are one of the strengths of Doom. So yes.

[xvertigox]

sr40/50 all the time, blocking PEs from spitting lost souls every single time possible. I don't really rj or archvile jump as I want to see all of the level and not skip anything.

[Xaser]

Every time, ever. I SR40 obsessively.

[hex11]

Not much, unless you count monster infighting, taking advantage of barrels, etc. But I guess the game was designed with those in mind, so they probably don't count.

[EarthQuake]

It really depends on what you consider a quirk, and what you consider part of the game. Most of us probably subconsciously take advantage of small things that we've discovered over the years playing the game. I guess the most commonly used "quirk" is straferunning. I'm so accustomed to it, I don't realize I'm doing it. As far as short-circuiting the map goes, I won't pull off any fancy stuff (arch-vile jumps, rocket jumps, bumps, etc) unless I'm stuck. I like playing the game the way it was intended to.

[Technician]

I don't think multiplayer would be half as fun without strafe-running.

[Grazza]

I do so whenever I see an opportunity, and even if it isn't clearly useful.

The most common thing is straferunning, of course, but I also tend to use the door trick a lot, as it is often a good way to stay healthy and save ammo.

If I notice a possibility for some drastic trick-based shortcut, then that's pretty much the end of any 'normal' playing of the map; I find it much more interesting to find out if the trick idea can be made to work.

[kmxexii]

SR40/50
Wallrunning when I can to speed through empty places
Chaingun (and pistol) tapping
Close-quarters pain elemental fighting

And that's it, I think, for regular stuff

[xvertigox]

Grazza said:

but I also tend to use the door trick a lot, as it is often a good way to stay healthy and save ammo.

kmxexii said:

Wallrunning when I can to speed through empty places
Chaingun (and pistol) tapping

Forgot to mention those.

[Memfis]

I like to grab stuff from small platforms. Secret soulspheres, keys that should lower later, weapons... Many mappers don't know about grabbing techniques.

Another cool trick is pressing switches from below/above.

[Maes]

The monsters hate me for doing it.

[Graf Zahl]

I regularly use straferunning and tend to hit supposedly unreachable switches.

Some of the more extravagant quirks, like wallrunning or SR50 don't appeal to me though.

Wallrunning has such an extreme impact on physics stability that I appreciate that it's no longer enabled by default in ZDoom. In this case, for me the negatives far outweigh the positives.

And aside from being used for speedrunning tricks SR50 has no place in map design so why bother?

[Dr. Durr]

I stand in front of Pain Elementals punching them.

[ASD]

Straferunning and silent BFG tricks in E3M4 and E4M6. For some reason I often hit the 2 switches in E2M1 without hitting the one that raises that switch wall.

[Vordakk]

Rushing Pain Elementals isn't "exploiting a quirk", it's being a good player.

[Mithran Denizen]

I think those two concepts overlap quite a bit... but are you saying that it's not quirky to render a monster harmless by standing in front of its' attack area?

Aside from the odd gameplay physics in general, that weakness in pain elementals is usually the first thing to come to mind when I think of "weird" gameplay eccentricities in Doom.

[Maes]

Vordakk said:

Rushing Pain Elementals isn't "exploiting a quirk", it's being a good player.

...but exploiting quirks is part being a good player ;-)

Playing straight and "by the book" will only get you so far, in any game, especially if there are human competitors involved (in which case it won't get you far at all).

[Graf Zahl]

Maes said:

...but exploiting quirks is part being a good player ;-)

That fully depends on the rules being set.

In some competitions it may be considered being an abusive player and cause disqualification if you try to get an advantage out of every loophole.

[Maes]

Graf Zahl said:

In some competitions it may be considered being an abusive player and cause disqualification if you try to get an advantage out of every loophole.

... and in others (most, unfortunately) you may be labelled a "whiner" or a "scrub" if you complain about other people doing it.

Your chances of asking and receiving a "fair go" in any established gaming community with a FFA game mode are just as slim as requesting a "fair fight" from a bunch of angry thugs: all you're gonna obtain will be getting glassed after someone else breaks a bottle on the back of your head, while you're busy trying to recover from the sand someone else kicked in your eyes. While calling you their "bitch".

Unless you are lucky enough to playing in leagues with very clear-cut rules or limitations specifically forbidding or limiting certain behaviors, you simply can't assume that there's a "straight" way or that anybody will adhere to it.

[Graf Zahl]

Guess why I don't play online... :D

[Phml]

... and in others (most, unfortunately) you may be labelled a "whiner" or a "scrub" if you complain about other people doing it.

Rightfully so. Unless specific rules have been set, no random individual has the authority to decide what's fair and what isn't. You want to make up your own fantasy rules, you play in private. Seems fairly straightforward.

If we'd cater to the lowest common denominator, gaming would end up being two guys standing in a line charging at each other with a sword. Then again you'd probably still see complaints that some dude is totally exploiting the mechanics by running instead of walking, and using swords instead of fluffy pillows is cheap.

[Maes]

Phml said:

If we'd cater to the lowest common denominator, gaming would end up being two guys standing in a line charging at each other with a sword.

Actually running and charging in a line would be an example of perfectly straightforward rules, if one was to take them to the letter and be overly literal in applying them with absolutely no variation.

The grounds for whining would occur as soon as someone pulled off a sommersault mid-run, used a slightly curved or longer/shorter sword or did a slide under his opponent at the final part of the run ;-) And in general did anything "out of the box", so to speak.

Which, if you had explicitly agreed that the only allowed actions were simply running forward, slashing blindly and hope for the best, would be perceived as "playing dirty" ;-)

In the end, it all boils down to whether you believe that online games should be more like a regulated sport or more like a spontaneous street fight (and we all know there can be no rules in a street fight).

[dew]

Dr. Durr said:

I stand in front of Pain Elementals punching them.

in addition to this, i also try to corner the PE against some walls and rush into it during its explosion to limit the space for the death-spawned lost souls. it usually costs me ~20hp, but it's very satisfying to "telefrag" or force the lost souls into the void.

[TwinBeast]

I sometimes use jump to jump over some crate or something if I'm lazy to find the secret that lowers the crate or some dumb tricky crate jumping route that makes me feel more like I'm playing a platform jumper game than Doom.

Sometimes the enemies might have cornered me, but there's an escape if I jump, so I usually jump. Sometimes I also jump on damage floors to take less/none damage. But I don't use jumping to skip major parts of the level. And when I'm jumping I prefer to be able to jump at least over a 64 unit tall place or enemy.

I also straferun, but I don't usually do that faster variant, but I think if jumping + straferunning increased movement speed similar to Quake, then I would do that.

[TimeOfDeath666]

Graf Zahl said:

Wallrunning has such an extreme impact on physics stability that I appreciate that it's no longer enabled by default in ZDoom.

And aside from being used for speedrunning tricks SR50 has no place in map design so why bother?

Some mappers design their maps for sr50 and wallrunning, plus many other "quirks" and "bugs". It's all part of the game. :)

[printz]

I have the tendency to exploit any non-cheat I master in Doom, because my objective is to find and throw the exit switch, not be honourable. Though, if I find it more fun to play regularly, I still don't use them.

[Snakes]

On a first run through the map, generally I do not such thing (though I will on the occasional FDA in an attempt to break a map). On every subsequent playthrough, though, I find it be to be quite fun to use these exploits. I mean, who doesn't want to glide into the void? :p

Also, I've certainly designed maps in the past where there can be benefits to a player abusing these quirks. I like rewarding ballsy play.

[Creaphis]

The other game I obsessed over as a kid was Warcraft II. I've been playing it again lately and I've realized that most of my strategies consist of AI abuse rather than "playing fair." There's just something about these old gameworlds that makes the line between "playing" and "cheating" extremely hard to see.