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xvertigox

Caco = female?

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Since I've been a kid I've always interpreted the cacodemon(s) to be female, does anybody else do this? This was never a conscious thing, they just give of a female vibe to me for some reason. I'm wondering is it in the sprite or is it entirely on my end?

edit: sprite for reference

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I've never really attributed gender to any of the monsters.

Expect someone to pop up anytime now and share a disturbingly precise description of specific pixels showing the caco has or hasn't lady parts.

Edit: was really tempted to type "Maes" instead of "someone". I should have went with my gut.

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Maes said:

Only girls have buttholes? ;o It's all in the face, I'm sure there's something feminine about the sprite (front frame, what's it called, A frame?)

I was searching for images for a reference and this was the 7th result

http://rule63.paheal.net/_images/6faff9c5a75008751462c17b1ba85a71/3089%20-%20Cacodemon%20DOOM%20Oniontrain.jpg

so uh, yeah, that exists.

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xvertigox said:

Only girls have buttholes?

No, but only they have TWO holes.

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That's what I was thinking but shouldn't it then have three holes? Anyway comparing demon to human anatomy doesn't really work, both holes might be for sucking up electricity for all we know. I'm really enjoying this caco butthole/vag/peehole tangent (and it should continue) but does the face look female to anyone else?

Cyanosis said:

The Pain Elemental is also a black woman who has babies out of wedlock.


Now I'm pretty tempted to make a sassy black woman sound mod for the PE.

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I remember hearing awhile back that Cacos are both male and female. However, it's the Pain Elementals that are only female, Lost Souls, who are the same species, are the males.

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Sodaholic, your threads are terrible and so are yo-..oh, pardon me, I'm just so used to it.

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PRIMEVAL said:

I remember hearing awhile back that Cacos are both male and female. However, it's the Pain Elementals that are only female, Lost Souls, who are the same species, are the males.


Interesting, source? If lost souls are male I wonder if they mature/grow or what. And if it does go PE:female LS:male couldn't one PE spawn infinite PE/LS via incest? Does a PE get pregnant from having sex with a LS and if so would it 100% give birth to a PE. Seems to me that the answer to all this is "they're demons and shit, just kill them, it's not supposed to make sense" :(

Use3D said:

Sodaholic, your threads are terrible and so are yo-..oh, pardon me, I'm just so used to it.


It's a legit question, I've assumed cacos were female since Doom was released and it only dawned on me recently that it was an assumption and I'm curious as to why I made it. Also now you know that when a girl is on her period you should chainsaw her to avoid taking damage.

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Female and male only makes sense if the demon types correspond to sexually-reproducing species.

As far as we know, they reproduce by being spawned out of flames from a skull-cube spit forth from a hole in the head of a giant goat in a wall.

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Gez said:

Female and male only makes sense if the demon types correspond to sexually-reproducing species.

As far as we know, they reproduce by being spawned out of flames from a skull-cube spit forth from a hole in the head of a giant goat in a wall.


Yeah this is all so ambiguous without any information from Tom Hall/designers/writers. Anyone read the novels and have any info to contribute?

I've never really thought of Hell as having any sort of ecosystem up until today, seems like it'd be more supernatural (i.e spawned from Icon of Sin). So yeah, demons originate entirely from the Icon of Sin? Seems like the only thing that could contest that fact would have to come from the books.

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DoomUK said:

Threads like this are the backbone of Doomworld's greatness.


Yes.

xvertigox said:

Interesting, source?


There was a sort of (unofficial, but well written) monster taxonomy here where this and other statements came from. Unfortunately, Doom2.net is dead, so you can only read that page through wayback or find a mirror of the contents.

There's one in Spanish, and several forums, blogs and websites seem to have replicated at least part of the content:

http://www.darkgreenhq.net/page_list.asp?author=Beyond%20Hades
http://www.darkgreenhq.net/page_show.asp?page_id=16
:edit: badlink with badware http://www.------.net/paranormal/doom-bestiary-info-megapost/ (search for Infernal Taxonomy).

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Maes, you fucking clutched. Great links! Even if not canon it makes for very interesting reading. This thread also wouldn't have been complete without this wad so thanks again.

I really like how Beyond Hades takes actual gameplay into account when describing the various demons behavior, it really adds a nice touch. This is making me really want to read the books.

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Maybe demon creation is similar to how the Cenobites are made in Hellraiser? Some of the more humanoid-looking monsters possibly once having been people, with some of the more obvious looking monsters being the ordinary denizens of Hell.

Though Doom's Hell doesn't follow any particular infrastructure we've come to know, no sign of "the devil" for example or any struggle with "heaven" or "god". They are a highly alien (not the frail gray skinny bodies with big black eyes type) in nature and this is what makes them scary, not conforming to any "normal" logic.

It would appear though they take ideas from human phobias to use against us. This could also mean that the more bizarre creatures that have mechanical parts would signify their technological advances, like the massive demon ship in TNT's story, and not so much subverting our own equipment.

In the end, I feel it's entirely user interpreted, if one really wants to get deep into it.

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Cyanosis said:

Though Doom's Hell doesn't follow any particular infrastructure we've come to know, no sign of "the devil" for example or any struggle with "heaven" or "god".


To be fair, there are some pretty cliche references to stereotypical goat-legged and goat-faced demons, wiccan/medieval satanic imagery like pentagrams and inverted crosses. To me Doom always looked as stock "satanic" as it could get without resorting to bat-winged demons with pitchforks (though Heretic does have them). More like a "Heavy Metal" type of satanic, but still with unmistakable imagery.

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I think they have genders, genitals and sex. Icon Of Sin just use those cubes to store the demons. Or even if he did spawn them, the demons would also be able to reproduce on their own. Doom is just a simple game and having both female and male versions of each monster would have taken much hdd space back then when it was made.. and would the different genders been that much different in gameplay?

Most likely the holes on the back side of the Cacodemon are just some form of cloaca. The males may have their penises inside the hole, or maybe they don't.. maybe they simply press their cloacas against each other and then the male secretes sperm.

Pain Elementals' ability to spawn Lost Souls is not about reproducing. Lost Souls aren't the same species as Pain Elementals. Lost Souls are not living creatures, and they do not reproduce. They are more like souls trapped inside skulls. Maybe the flame in it is the soul or maybe it's just flame and the soul is invisible. Pain Elementals reproduce similar to Cacodemon and the Lost Soul spawning ability is completely unrelated.

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Cyanosis said:

So the Pain Elemental eats souls and regurgitates them.


sounds like a woman to me amirite

I'm gonna go with the "demons are genderless monsters and spawned by a wall's forehead" theory. I'm pretty sure there's some biblical symbolism there.

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Jimi said:

I think they have genders, genitals and sex.

The problem with that approach is that then they have babies.

I don't know, but I can't take Doom seriously if I picture a tiny archvile in diapers with a pacifier.

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Gez said:

The problem with that approach is that then they have babies.

I don't know, but I can't take Doom seriously if I picture a tiny archvile in diapers with a pacifier.


Blast a pinky demon with a SSG, find out its pregnant :(

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If noses existed in anime, your picture would have two additional holes.

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Maes said:

(insert Cacodemon ass here)


I'm sure this may derail the conversation of demon anatomy, but is this picture taken from some kind of hi res sprite wad? Or is it just a single frame that has been touched up? If it's from a wad, I wouldn't mind knowing which one it is.

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