Serious Sam 3: BFE

[MegaDoomer]

So, promising to be a return to old school run 'n gun style of gameplay, this now released game is my most awaited of the 2011 holiday season. I have yet to pick it up, and users have given it excellent scores on Metacritic, but critics have been much more modest in their scoring, with GameInformer giving a 78% and Eurogame giving a 7/10 (reviews have been slow to come in so far). In particular, both critical reviews, and even some of the users say you really have to play coop to get the best out of the game. So I would like to know, from anyone on this forum who has this game and has played with it - what do you think? - please choose one of the three options above and any commentary would be welcome!

[Khorus]

I enjoyed it. If you don't like FE or SE though, there isn't any reason to pick it up. It's overall not as challenging either, but it has it's moments there.

Level design is still it's weakest point, though. I'd like to try my hand at some maps for it (or SE:HD) at some point.

[MegaDoomer]

Khorus said:

I enjoyed it. If you don't like FE or SE though, there isn't any reason to pick it up. It's overall not as challenging either, but it has it's moments there.

Level design is still it's weakest point, though. I'd like to try my hand at some maps for it (or SE:HD) at some point.

I've played both FE and SE (not the HD versions though) and like them both. In my opinion, SE was the best easily but FE was good too.

Serious Sam 2 was definitely weaker than both FE and SE IMO.

Between FE, SE, and Serious Sam 2, what does SS3: BFE most resemble in terms of levels and designs?

[Khorus]

FE as it's set only in Egypt.

[MegaDoomer]

Khorus said:

FE as it's set only in Egypt.

I actually mean are there a lot of smaller indoor areas to go with the outdoor areas like in SE or does it consist of almost entirely massive scale rooms as in FE?

[Remilia Scarlet]

I have been looking forward to this since I first saw it. Serious Sam has always been one of my favorite games. I'll probably pick it up this weekend.

[Jello]

Well I got it on release day and I have to say I'm pretty happy with it. Those review scores don't surprise me much either, I don't think the first or second encounter got more than 80% but I could be wrong. I'm only on the sixth level, and I do have some gripes but all in all it's a fantastic game, and still fun as hell to shoot things. Plus Sam, unlike Duke Nukem can actually make me chuckle.

As for the gripes, I'm fine with the sprinting, since it's not mandatory and it's unlimited so you don't end up panting like an 80 year old man with asthma after going ten feet like Duke did. The iron sights as well aren't necessary, and completely useless on the pistol and only marginally useful on the automatic rifle. The reloading on the single barrel shotgun really annoys me though. I expected it on the pistol and the double barrel since that's how it worked in the original, but one of the advantages of the single barrel was uninterrupted medium damage at close to medium range. Having it reload, but not making it any stronger or more accurate to compensate is pretty detrimental. The last thing is the FOV, I can't stand having it at the default, which I think is 90 actually. It still seems like I'm missing most of what's going on, so I changed it to 100 and it's more comfortable.

The level design so far has been mostly close quarters, with a few larger areas. The second level rather sucked however, since it was all indoors with annoying little spider creatures all over the place, however just starting out on the sixth level it's a large open area like you'd see in tfe and tse.

Anyway, gameplay wise, it plays almost identical to the original games, aside from the reloading gripe, and if you loved them, you'll love this one. It's more of the same, looks pretty good, and it's always fun to blow a Kleer apart in mid jump with a double barrel shotgun.

[MegaDoomer]

Jello said:

Well I got it on release day and I have to say I'm pretty happy with it. Those review scores don't surprise me much either, I don't think the first or second encounter got more than 80% but I could be wrong. I'm only on the sixth level, and I do have some gripes but all in all it's a fantastic game, and still fun as hell to shoot things. Plus Sam, unlike Duke Nukem can actually make me chuckle.

As for the gripes, I'm fine with the sprinting, since it's not mandatory and it's unlimited so you don't end up panting like an 80 year old man with asthma after going ten feet like Duke did. The iron sights as well aren't necessary, and completely useless on the pistol and only marginally useful on the automatic rifle. The reloading on the single barrel shotgun really annoys me though. I expected it on the pistol and the double barrel since that's how it worked in the original, but one of the advantages of the single barrel was uninterrupted medium damage at close to medium range. Having it reload, but not making it any stronger or more accurate to compensate is pretty detrimental. The last thing is the FOV, I can't stand having it at the default, which I think is 90 actually. It still seems like I'm missing most of what's going on, so I changed it to 100 and it's more comfortable.

The level design so far has been mostly close quarters, with a few larger areas. The second level rather sucked however, since it was all indoors with annoying little spider creatures all over the place, however just starting out on the sixth level it's a large open area like you'd see in tfe and tse.

Anyway, gameplay wise, it plays almost identical to the original games, aside from the reloading gripe, and if you loved them, you'll love this one. It's more of the same, looks pretty good, and it's always fun to blow a Kleer apart in mid jump with a double barrel shotgun.

Is the reloading a show stopper or fairly minor in your view?

Also with "the original games", is Serious Sam 2 included, or just TFE and TSE? Because I rather was dissapointed by SS2.

[Craigs]

MegaDoomer said:

Is the reloading a show stopper or fairly minor in your view?

Also with "the original games", is Serious Sam 2 included, or just TFE and TSE? Because I rather was dissapointed by SS2.

Most people were disappointed by SS2. I think part of it was just turning a series that was known for a somewhat serious design with a silly undertone into a game that was just kind of silly and stupid.

[Jello]

The reloading isn't really a show stopper, but it is annoying. I expected it with the pistol since the Colt in the original games had reloading as well to compensate for the fact that they had unlimited ammo, but I didn't really expect it with the shotgun and the assault rifle. It does get annoying when I'm trying to clear out a room with the assault rifle and I have to stop to reload. But again, the rest of the game makes up for it, but it's something I'll probably try to find a mod for at some point. It doesn't affect all weapons though, the rocket launcher and the laser gun still work exactly the same. So yeah, not something that destroys enjoyment, just a design decision I disagree with. I loved my full auto Thompson spitting out 400 rounds with no reload.

As for Serious Sam 2 being included with the deluxe edition, it's not, only the 'classic' versions of The First Encounter and the Second Encounter are in it. Since I already have those on disc from way back when, the additional bonuses didn't really seem worth the extra price so I just got the regular version. Serious Sam 2 isn't even on Steam, from what I've heard they're having issues with the publisher, 2K Games. Not a real loss, from what I played it was a bit too cartoony and silly as Craigs said, and I just didn't find it as fun as TFE and TSE.

[MegaDoomer]

Jello said:

The reloading isn't really a show stopper, but it is annoying. I expected it with the pistol since the Colt in the original games had reloading as well to compensate for the fact that they had unlimited ammo, but I didn't really expect it with the shotgun and the assault rifle. It does get annoying when I'm trying to clear out a room with the assault rifle and I have to stop to reload. But again, the rest of the game makes up for it, but it's something I'll probably try to find a mod for at some point. It doesn't affect all weapons though, the rocket launcher and the laser gun still work exactly the same. So yeah, not something that destroys enjoyment, just a design decision I disagree with. I loved my full auto Thompson spitting out 400 rounds with no reload.

As for Serious Sam 2 being included with the deluxe edition, it's not, only the 'classic' versions of The First Encounter and the Second Encounter are in it. Since I already have those on disc from way back when, the additional bonuses didn't really seem worth the extra price so I just got the regular version. Serious Sam 2 isn't even on Steam, from what I've heard they're having issues with the publisher, 2K Games. Not a real loss, from what I played it was a bit too cartoony and silly as Craigs said, and I just didn't find it as fun as TFE and TSE.

If you were to score it out of 10 (as I see from users on MetaCritic), would the reloading result in docking any more than 2 points (i.e. would you still score at least an 8/10 if you were to write it up there)?

[Jello]

I'd give it an 8 out of 10 as it is, and I'd also give it an 8 out of 10 if it didn't have reloading. I may have highlighted it as my complaint, but it's not horrible. It's annoying, but as I said, the rest of the gameplay makes up for it. An 8/10 to me means a very solid and enjoyable game, well worth the purchase. Especially because Croteam decided the $40 price was a good target, and they were right.

I wouldn't dissuade you from buying it due to the reloading, it's annoying, but it doesn't break the game, and I wouldn't take points off. It's still fun, and throwing a C4 charge into a group of charging enemies and watching the body parts fly is fun. Shooting a rocket into a minor biomechanoid and watching it's legs give out as it fires a last burst from it's laser cannon is still fun. Jumping to the side of a charging werebull and firing a load of buckshot in it it is still fun. And my favorite thing from Serious Sam is back, firing a double barrel shot gun at a Kleer skeleton as it lunges at your face, then smiling when you see the broken bones flying past you.

Basically if you liked The First Encounter and The Second Encounter, you will like it. If you didn't like them, then avoid it, it will not convert you.

[MegaDoomer]

Jello said:

I'd give it an 8 out of 10 as it is, and I'd also give it an 8 out of 10 if it didn't have reloading. I may have highlighted it as my complaint, but it's not horrible. It's annoying, but as I said, the rest of the gameplay makes up for it. An 8/10 to me means a very solid and enjoyable game, well worth the purchase. Especially because Croteam decided the $40 price was a good target, and they were right.

I wouldn't dissuade you from buying it due to the reloading, it's annoying, but it doesn't break the game, and I wouldn't take points off. It's still fun, and throwing a C4 charge into a group of charging enemies and watching the body parts fly is fun. Shooting a rocket into a minor biomechanoid and watching it's legs give out as it fires a last burst from it's laser cannon is still fun. Jumping to the side of a charging werebull and firing a load of buckshot in it it is still fun. And my favorite thing from Serious Sam is back, firing a double barrel shot gun at a Kleer skeleton as it lunges at your face, then smiling when you see the broken bones flying past you.

Basically if you liked The First Encounter and The Second Encounter, you will like it. If you didn't like them, then avoid it, it will not convert you.

So basically the reloading is an annoyance, but nothing more, and nothing you'd take points off for - it essentially gets the same rating with or without it?

(Also BTW - what score would you give Serious Sam 2?)

[Jello]

Yeah, as I said it's an annoyance, but nothing that breaks the game. I'd prefer if it wasn't there, but it is. However I realized that it didn't really make me take cover more than in the previous installments because I just needed to not be shot at for a few seconds, and during those few seconds of cover I reload as well. It doesn't affect my score, it's still a fun game regardless, but I don't think it was necessary.

As for Serious Sam 2, I only played it for maybe 3 hours and I really only remember the first area with the castle. It was just a little too silly, with witches and gnomes and whatnot. It had the battles, but the tone was off. The shooting was fun enough, but the atmosphere was off for Serious Sam and I just stopped. The rest of it might be great, but from what I played it would get a 5/10, competent, but misguided. And again, I might be off since I never completed it, but the cartoonish feel just threw me off. Plus the vehicle segments really didn't work well at all.

[sirjuddington]

Personally I liked SS2 better than the first, because it had more varied environments but played pretty much the same. The egyptian theme got pretty old by the end of SS1.

[MegaDoomer]

Third critic review in...Bit-Gamer only gave it 65%. Given the critics have been very reluctant to score this high, I'm pretty much using users and in particular this poll (since this poll directly targets the old school audience I'm looking for) to determine if this ride is worth a go.

It's worth noting that some of the critical scores have bashed this (albeit a little less intensely) for some of the same reasons they bashed DNF - but the low user scores that also accompanied DNF are not (yet) present in this case.

[Varis Alpha]

I've only played TSE, but I enjoyed it for what it was worth. BFE sounds like a solid, enjoyable game, but I'm probably unable to get it for now until this comp gets updated.

[Jello]

Well, despite that fact that I don't really like review sites, I checked out metacritic. Currently it has a 69% critic rating, and 9.0 user rating. As I said before, I'd say they're both about ten points off in my opinion. I'm not going to say OMG WOW PERFECT 10 ITS SERIOUS SAM! But I wouldn't say it's as average as a 70%, but I'd probably err more to the user review side and give it a solid 8/10. Anyway, I enjoyed it, and I'd recommend it to anyone who liked the previous games, or anyone who likes FPS games but is getting sick of regenerating health, only being able to carry two weapons, and shooting endless waves of Arabs, Russians, and Germans.

And as an aside to anyone who doesn't have the original games, or doesn't have the HD remakes, the Serious Sam Gold Edition, which includes the classic version and the HD remakes is 90% off on Steam, bringing it to a "So cheap for some reason I want to buy it even though I already have them all" $3.99.

[hardcore_gamer]

Its a good game but I can't really dare to call it "great" yet. Granted that I have only finished about 5-6 levels so far and I have heard that the first few levels are really dull and that the later ones are awesome.

[TheEndOfUs]

MegaDoomer said:

So basically the reloading is an annoyance, but nothing more

I think its better, it made the game more challenging & forces you to be more tactical. Also, is this game harder than FE & SE? Im playing on normal & got my ass kicked a couple of times. The classics were easy as pie on normal difficulty (minus the insane kleer wave on FE).

[Khorus]

TheEndOfUs said:

I think its better, it made the game more challenging & forces you to be more tactical. Also, is this game harder than FE & SE? Im playing on normal & got my ass kicked a couple of times. The classics were easy as pie on normal difficulty (minus the insane kleer wave on FE).

I think it's quite a bit easier than both FE and SE. I did my first playthrough of BFE on Serious and I recall 4 areas where I had to rethink my approach. There was too much quiet time with the assault rifle and not enough all out insane acshun with the minigun for my liking.

Also, the sniper and laser rifle, my favourite Sam weapon, being found only in secrets sucked. :(

[destx]

Finished it last night, fuckin' amazing.

My co-op partner was kind of annoyed with the reloading, personally I didn't really have an issue. The shotgun & devastator (HOLY SHIT THE DEVASTATOR) reload speeds are perfect, but I think the assault rifle should be about 25% quicker. It's definitely the weakest element in the game, I miss the Tommy gun. A second pistol would be nice too.

Last time I checked there were 18,000 people on the leaderboards, so it's made a few sales. I really hope Croteam and Devolver do well out of this, they deserve it.

The visuals are sort of inconsistent at the start, but for the most part it looks damn pretty. Again, the engine scales quite well and doesn't faceplant when you've got 40 bads on screen.

[GooberMan]

They really should have just ditched the urban levels and started at the Sphinx level. Pretty much fantastic from that point on.

[Blastfrog]

The only time that Serious Sam appealed to me is when I saw it in a computer software store with my mom as a child, and my name being Sam, I immediately thought the game looked awesome just because it had my name in it, and because you could run around shooting things. My mom kept denying me it due to the M rating, but I thought that the fact that it had my name on it was a legit reason to give an exception. :P (this was when I was around 9)

Years later, I saw gameplay videos, and wasn't exactly impressed. Just big empty levels where you fight off enemies running at you. Meh.

[MegaDoomer]

GooberMan said:

They really should have just ditched the urban levels and started at the Sphinx level. Pretty much fantastic from that point on.

How many levels are the Urban levels (first 3 levels, first 4 or 5 levels, etc.) and is there enough good after that (how many levels are there from Sphinx on?) for you to recommend the game despite the slow start?

Actually, this kind of seems to be the tune to things, even many users on MetaCritic are saying the first couple of levels really aren't that great. That would obviously cause the criticial scores to take a big hit, since many critical reviews strongly are based towards first impressions, along with the points it'll already loose from many sites for being an "out of date" style of game in their view, but on this forum the whole "outdated" thing is totally irrelevant because those on here are there because they like Doom and thus clearly like older style games! That's one of the main reasons I chose this as the place to gather some thoughts.

But back to the subject of the weak beginning versus the strong remainder, the bottom line is if I can get, say, an approximate ratio of at least an hour and a half of fun and games to look forward to in the later parts of the game for every dull or otherwise boring hour I have to play through earlier in the game, then I'm more than interested in playing this thing and simply being prepared to stomach its early weaknesses (or any minor negative points throughout), and therefore that should correlate to a recommendation.

[Xeros612]

On the early levels: I honestly get the impression that the linear urban levels are meant to be deceptive, make you think it pulled a DNF and went very linear, with the intent to practically jump out and yell "SURPRISE, BITCH!" with levels more reminiscent of the Serious Sam we've come to know.

[GooberMan]

MegaDoomer said:

How many levels are the Urban levels (first 3 levels, first 4 or 5 levels, etc.) and is there enough good after that (how many levels are there from Sphinx on?) for you to recommend the game despite the slow start?

About the first four from memory. I did start proper enjoying the last urban level though, it started to feel like SS should. Those levels almost seems like they're in there as one big joke, showing how boring a modern shooter is compared to the later mayhem of the game.

It really needed to be an hour or two shorter though for maximum effectiveness. But I've put 20+ hours in to the game according to Steam and I still haven't seen the end. Same deal with the original Sam games - the first levels were reasonably quick (less than half an hour each) with later levels taking at least an hour. 12 levels total works out to be a very end-heavy game. Especially that last level. I've been on it for two hours so far and I'm not sure how much longer I have to go. Or how many more enemies they could possibly spawn. Pretty funny though, the savegame takes a couple of seconds to save thanks to the amount of data it needs to track.

[MegaDoomer]

GooberMan said:

About the first four from memory. I did start proper enjoying the last urban level though, it started to feel like SS should. Those levels almost seems like they're in there as one big joke, showing how boring a modern shooter is compared to the later mayhem of the game.

It really needed to be an hour or two shorter though for maximum effectiveness. But I've put 20+ hours in to the game according to Steam and I still haven't seen the end. Same deal with the original Sam games - the first levels were reasonably quick (less than half an hour each) with later levels taking at least an hour. 12 levels total works out to be a very end-heavy game. Especially that last level. I've been on it for two hours so far and I'm not sure how much longer I have to go. Or how many more enemies they could possibly spawn. Pretty funny though, the savegame takes a couple of seconds to save thanks to the amount of data it needs to track.

A bit of an indirect response (my base question was really meant to be yes/no variety) but given you said you've put that many hours into the game I'd assume that yes you could recommend it then on the merit of getting a fair return of fun & games after some less exciting stuff early on. Please just let me know explicitly if that's a correct interpretation.

And just so I'm prepared, about how many hours did it take you to get through the Urban levels and to the fun part? I'd assume it was maybe two or three hours when one or two would've been better, but I'd like to clarify for sure here as well.

[Xeros612]

Currently sitting at 70/100 on Metacritic for "professional" reviewers, and 88/100 for user reviews. As dumb and "THIS GAME IS AWESOME 10/10" as a lot of the user reviews are, things are looking pretty good for ol' Sam here.

[Mr. T]

Even the original Serious Sam didn't get *great* pro reviews. Remember these are the same tards who give MW3 90-100 so they don't know what the fuck they are talking about IMHO