Original DOOM sources (wanted...)

[shadow1013]

As everyone knows, the original DOOM source code was never released, and the source code we have now is actually heavily modified by Bernd Kremeier, and has major differences from the original code base (of course this isn't even talking about the sound code which was never released. But I believe that the original code base (of course without DMX) should be released to the public. After all, we could see the original assembler rendering functions that way ;)

[fraggle]

It would certainly be nice to see. I actually have a bug in Chocolate Doom that was reported recently, and tracked down the source of the discrepancy to Bernd Kreimeier's changes.

Realistically, I think it's incredibly unlikely we'll ever see it happen, though.

[Quasar]

All of the relevant differences can be discovered through reverse engineering, without any need for another source release.

I'll be getting you that info you need sometime this week, fraggle.

[_bruce_]

Would be nice for educational purpose.

[fraggle]

Quasar said:

All of the relevant differences can be discovered through reverse engineering, without any need for another source release.

I'll be getting you that info you need sometime this week, fraggle.

Thanks :)

Realistically, I'd probably be far more interested in seeing the DMX source code than in seeing the original unblemished Doom source. It would help me finish off the OPL emulation, for one.

[shadow1013]

Honestly I just want the original un-modified code. I don't particularly care about DMX as much. But It's well known that John Romero has the full copy of everything including the mysterious DoomEd on a cd, and it would be nice of him to release that. Just hopeful wishing though :/

[GreyGhost]

shadow1013 said:

It's well known that John Romero has the full copy of everything including the mysterious DoomEd on a cd

Given the tendency for gold disks to become marginal/unreadable after ten years (especially disks with software you cherish), I hope it's an archive quality CD or re-burnt regularly.

[shadow1013]

Yeah that is true, but I remember reading on his Twitter that he backed up all the data on to his computer or something like that

[hex11]

What's his IP? ;)

[Maes]

GreyGhost said:

Given the tendency for gold disks to become marginal/unreadable after ten years (especially disks with software you cherish), I hope it's an archive quality CD or re-burnt regularly.

Funny. Some mid-90s gold-green CD-Rs are among the most reliable disks I have (no errors, full-speed reads, maximum compatibility). The crowning moment of awesome was when I found a PRISTINE golden CD-R last year, and it still burned perfectly :-p

[Blastfrog]

hex11 said:

What's his IP? ;)

Wanna do some hacking, eh? That would be pretty awesome to get ahold of the contents of that CD that way. :P

But no seriously, I wanna see all the unused game resources in there, I bet there's tons of stuff that aren't in any alphas or betas currently available to the public.

[GreyGhost]

Maes said:

Funny. Some mid-90s gold-green CD-Rs are among the most reliable disks I have (no errors, full-speed reads, maximum compatibility). The crowning moment of awesome was when I found a PRISTINE golden CD-R last year, and it still burned perfectly :-p

You've probably encountered your fair share of mediocre and crap disks as well. Some from the late 90s (as used by the last few Amiga software publishers) are amongst the worst I've encountered, with a couple starting to delaminate despite being well looked after.

[Maes]

GreyGhost said:

You've probably encountered your fair share of mediocre and crap disks as well.

Never golden ones though. Then again, I remember them costing a pretty penny (about $20 for a single disk, in 1996) and even came in individual cases that weighed as much as three modern ones, so perhaps they were all overengineered or "archive quality" compared to modern standards. I don't even know if you can get "archive quality" CDs in regular shops anymore, or if they are facing a quality decline like the one that hit floppy disks after 2000.

The first time I witnessed crap disks was when the silver/light green cheapo CD-Rs sold in cakes became common (so after 1999). Before that, CD-Rs were definitively a premium product. I remember carefully doing only multi-session writes to make the most out of every disk.

[shadow1013]

Can we copy this disk from this image? :D
http://yfrog.com/h8mg0vp

[Koko Ricky]

What would be gained by obtaining the original sources? Considering all of the wonderful modding that has been made possible by the source code available now, what would be the advantage?

[Maes]

GoatLord said:

What would be gained by obtaining the original sources? Considering all of the wonderful modding that has been made possible by the source code available now, what would be the advantage?

At this point, it would mostly be a curiosity, as there are only very minor aspects left that haven't been recreated or reverse engineered so far.

It would only give definitive answers to a few petty technicalities like whether the DOS version used ModeX or how they handled all those different IWADs (linuxdoom badly butchered the code at that point) or how/if the Alphas ever had a truly working HiColor mode (assuming we get the code for them too), and maybe a few things here and there that were lost in the linuxdoom source code release (and there WERE things lost). Having the code to versions <1.9 would be marginally more interesting.

BTW, the Boom team was -supposedly- given access to the original SC at some point, and so if something proved worthwhile it must have already been added in the source ports' "genetic pool" a long time ago.

[fraggle]

GoatLord said:

What would be gained by obtaining the original sources? Considering all of the wonderful modding that has been made possible by the source code available now, what would be the advantage?

Well, in developing Chocolate Doom, there have been several bugs specifically caused by differences between the DOS source code and the released linuxdoom source code. If the source code included the DMX source I'd also be able to finish accurate OPL emulation.

[shadow1013]

Maybe if enough people ask Romero we can get him to release?

[DoomGater]

Maes said:

I don't even know if you can get "archive quality" CDs in regular shops anymore, or if they are facing a quality decline like the one that hit floppy disks after 2000.

They're still there...:
http://www.prodataplus.com/Gold-Blank-CD-DVD-Media-s/970.htm
I guess, that for professional audio CD mastering still those infamous
"Audio CD-Rs" must be available. Maybe they are good for long-tima archival purpose, too.

BTW: Why not use USB-memory? Do these sticks degregade? I remember, that some sticks have a "write protect" - switch, so wouldn't that be a very secure storage system?

[Maes]

DoomGater said:

BTW: Why not use USB-memory? Do these sticks degregade? I remember, that some sticks have a "write protect" - switch, so wouldn't that be a very secure storage system?

Flash memory works with trapped electrical charges, and a given write is only "guaranteed good" for a decade or so, possibly less, assuming that the interface electronics still work. That's a far cry from "archive durability" even when compared with removable magnetic media such as floppies or even audio cassettes and VHS tapes.

Factory-made ROM and EEPROM (programmable non-flash) OTOH is practically eternal but you can't rely on modern electronic interfaces (or the lack thereof) to be readable/available in the future.

E.g. compare how ROMs were scavenged from old consoles and arcades: ad-hoc cartridge readers or even per-case chip-by-chip raw EEPROM reads, ofter requiring desoldering or removing ICs from their sockets.

DoomGater said:

I guess, that for professional audio CD mastering still those infamous "Audio CD-Rs" must be available. Maybe they are good for long-tima archival purpose, too.

If anything, they are ordinary CD-R disks with a price premium added which is then levied as a discographic tax, there's no inherent increase in quality if a disc simply bears the "For Consumer" tag, especially since they use the same materials as regular discs.

The CD-R FAQ explains the issue with them pretty well. Ironically, it's not the disks themselves that are "For Audio": you can record data on them too if you want, and they are actually "unrestricted for data and audio". It's the REGULAR CD-R disks that are not unrestricted for audio, but only consumer grade standalone CD Audio recorders actually honour the difference. Professional-grade and generic computer recorders simply don't give a rat's ass.