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Katamori

Mapping is an art! Agree or disagree?

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Reading Joshy's lengthy replies I'm actually tempted to agree with him - although as I said it's somewhere between art and science (artistic science, perhaps?) I suppose I already have.

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Some mapsets are art, like Alien Vendetta, Scythe 1 & 2, Darkening E2, Espi's "The Shrine", and Vader's "Thunder Peak" but disjointed Zdoom community projects and Unloved are not, in my objective opinion.

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Haha nah I'm just being an asshole elitest troll :), if you read a little harder into my post you might see that I tried and failed at tongue in cheek humor.

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It's definitely art. It's just some people understand art as a collection of masterpieces.
It's art, because it requires manual work, it's intended to either tell a story or to serve an entertainment purpose.

Finally the result of such art is completely subject to personal opinion. Yes, there are features that make a wad being widely accepted or widely shunned, but generally it always boils down to so many intangible things, that decide wether you like it or not.

It's an art. It has it's masterpieces, that strive to be as realistic as it gets, some that try to be as surreal as it gets, others focus on gameplay (so basically the aim for a specific emotional response - THE FUN)...

it's an art - and as every art: there are pieces of art and pieces of shit.

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DeathevokatioN said:

Haha nah I'm just being an asshole elitest troll :), if you read a little harder into my post you might see that I tried and failed at tongue in cheek humor.

Someone on another forum will probably quote your post as a completely serious Doomworld Manifesto.

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Yes, it is.
You are expressing your ideas, using your imagintion to build something for the sole purpose of entertaining you, and other people.

The real question is: Why shouldn't it be considered art?

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If you define "art" as the process and elegance by which the author sculpts a product using a set of computational, chromatic, and capability constraints, then practically anything done in the Doom Engine that isn't gameplay-related could be considered "art" (tweaking gameplay is more of a scientific process than an art). Traditional artists are still limited by their mediums and tools, much like mappers and pixel/procedural artists, and their approach to realizing their vision is shaped entirely by these limitations, especially in an engine as limiting as Doom's.

I'm of the opinion that "art" and "expressive power" are two entirely different things. Although they are commonly associated, conveying a message/feeling to the viewer/player is what happens at the end of the creative process. The real art, with respect to the Doom Engine, is how effectively its limitations and flaws (EDIT: not just structural, but its ability to immerse and offer an interactive experience) are concealed by the author, and that process can always be improved. When people say that somebody has artistic integrity, they are talking about how well the artist uses their tools and the effort that goes along with it. It's a shame, though, that art is sometimes judged entirely by the end product, or "expressive power" in most cases, because the process and/or medium is not always revealed.

Of course, whether or not the effort was worth it in the end is an entirely different discussion - one that is subjective to the work itself.

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esselfortium said:

Someone on another forum will probably quote your post as a completely serious Doomworld Manifesto.

On it ;)

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Vaporizer said:

I think games are art, so I also think mapping is art.


I agree.

Creating maps/mods is to make something to be criticized, to amaze, generate various emotions, catharsis, fun, good taste; It is an Art, indeed.

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TimeOfDeath said:

If you can jerkoff to it, then it's porn, not art.


Anything becomes porn that are good to jerkoff on that.

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TimeOfDeath said:

If you can jerkoff to it, then it's porn, not art.


If you try hard enough, you can jerkoff to anything.

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I would have to say mapping is a type of art. Not every WAD is a masterpiece, obviously. Then again, what is a masterpiece is really determined by the individual evaluating it. To make a successfully, highly memorable WAD, in my opinion, there has to be a balance between the aesthetic and the technical. A WAD can be very beautiful to look at, but the game play could be lacking. Or, the game play in a WAD could be great, but the visuals are lack-luster.

A WAD that can truly be called art is one that is an experience to play through. It's not just something that passes the time. You're engaged from the start to the end.

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mapping is art, especially in heretic, just see wads like Curse of D'sparil or Icebound

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The question is more about defining art than defining mapping. I think it is but my (perhaps flawed) definition of art is something that has been created to serve something other than (or more than just) a functional purposes.

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TimeOfDeath said:

I was trolling with the whole "is it art? or is it porn?" thing. But I meant to say "it's still art, but also porn".

Does that make Impse art?

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