Duke Nukem Forever on sale -- $5

[printz]

^lol@personal attacks.

[Sharessa]

Mr. Freeze said:

Nobody *smart* ever picked classes in an Elder Scrolls game. Custom classes were the standard, providing you didn't want to gimp yourself. What did we lose?

PFFFFFFFT

Yeah, you made a custom class if you wanted to play the game easy mode. Or you chose a class if you wanted an actual challenge.

[Scripten]

Seems like you'd want the game to provide challenge no matter what you choose as a class. I mean, that's what difficulty settings are for, right?

[Craigs]

Xeros612 said:

Oblivion at the very least had the decency to keep classes and attributes and to not be fully consolised. You know, to be an Elder Scrolls game in more than setting.

I actually like Skyrim's system a lot more than the previous elder scrolls games. Starting as pretty much nothing and from there developing your class throughout the game seems a lot more immersive than just choosing "I want to be a mage!" at the start of the game.
Oh and I remember the fallout games work kind of like this too so I guess Fallout is totally casual too.

[Kaiser]

Just to piss everyone off, I bought the game on sale and I am actually enjoying it so far.

[hardcore_gamer]

Kaiser said:

Just to piss everyone off, I bought the game on sale and I am actually enjoying it so far.

It should probably be noted that the "only 2 weapons at a time" limitation was removed in a patch and the limit decreased to only 4 weapons because everyone cried about the 2 weapons only limit.

It guess that's a step in the right direction, but it still doesn't fix the rest of the game.

[DoomUK]

hardcore_gamer said:

It should probably be noted that the "only 2 weapons at a time" limitation was removed in a patch and the limit decreased to only 4 weapons because everyone cried about the 2 weapons only limit.

It guess that's a step in the right direction, but it still doesn't fix the rest of the game.

Considering everything that's just wrong with DNF, I'd say the 2/4 weapon limit is the least of it's problems.

[DooM_RO]

Has anyone tried "The Doctor who Cloned me" DLC?I heard on various forums that it is fairly long and it improves the level design by making it less linear

[Xeros612]

Justince said:

Xeros is nothing but a bullheaded contrarian. Likes duke forever but hates skyrim. Of course if skyrim was the black sheep he'd be all over it. Would probably shit on his own head in leu of using a popular shampoo.

Words cannot describe just how fucking stupid you are.

Mr Freeze said:

Shooters are not RPGS. The fuck you on, kiddo?

That's not even the point I was making. The POINT was that SHOOTERS, a genre that has NEVER been all that complex without going into subgenres like Tactical shooters, get enough bitching from a substantial(in size OR volume) portion of the community for being more linear than Doom or other "old school" shooters.

YET, when an RPG, a genre that has ALWAYS been more complex than a shooter, gets consolised and simplified into oblivion (pun not intended), the same community that will bitch to no end about comparatively smaller simplifications in an already simple genre will fail to give the SLIGHTEST bit of a fuck when a complex genre is simplified to a FAR larger effect.

>He thinks attributes meant anything outside of meaningless numbers for neckbeards to sperg over!

Nice bullshit, chanfag. This is a fucking RPG we're talking about here, not some fucking "run around and shoot everything" mindless shooter, kid. If you can't handle that then what the fuck are you doing even considering an RPG?

The attributes in REAL TES games affected your character's skills, abilities, carrying capacity, and health/magicka/fatigue stats. They were a major part of the game's role-playing system. But I guess that's too "complex" for console players today, despite Oblivion working well enough what, six years ago? Clearly too complex for you if you're spouting some bullshit "insult" you picked up from the cesspool of the internet.

Craigs said:

I actually like Skyrim's system a lot more than the previous elder scrolls games. Starting as pretty much nothing and from there developing your class throughout the game seems a lot more immersive than just choosing "I want to be a mage!" at the start of the game.

Oh and I remember the fallout games work kind of like this too so I guess Fallout is totally casual too.

You start as pretty much nothing in every other TES game as well. You plan your build at the beginning, but you seem to forget one of the main parts of TES: FREEDOM. You don't have to strictly stick to the build you made; you just have to work harder to improve the stats you decided not to focus on.

Fallout 3 isn't even a TES game, so I don't know why the fuck you're bringing it up in a subdiscussion that's clearly about TES. But yes, it IS rather casual compared to older cRPGs. Even then, it's more complex than Skyrim because *gasp* it had ATTRIBUTES and MAJOR SKILLS, and if you screwed up your build you had to either start over or WORK to fix it.

The above point comes up again. Shooter plays more simply than Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc., this community pretty much ranges between "rage comic" bitching and "lol this game is shit with no redeeming qualities at all". Game in a far more complex genre plays more simply than previous games in the genre and/or series to a much larger effect of simplification, and suddenly it's "lol move on". It's kind of like getting pissed off when someone kicks your car's window out but not caring at all when they set fire to your house.

Membrain said:

What does Morrowind have that Skyrim doesn't that makes it so much better?

Full implementation of attributes(they exist for one, they affect your skills for another), more skills, more items, you can actually use alchemy without having to access some static bench in a town, far more in depth conversation options with a greater total amount of dialogue choices, speechcraft implementation that utilised your character's speechcraft skill instead of some awful minigame(Oblivion) or replacing it with Mercantilism and keeping the name(Skyrim), far less hand-holding nature, fatigue actually meaning something(as in, as fatigue decreases, so does your ability to successfully do things so you have to pay attention to it and use restore potions as opposed to just limiting sprint time and making you stop doing power attacks from time to time), health and magicka don't easymode regenerate like every other easy game these days...

It's a much more complex and rewarding system.

[Aliotroph?]

In Daggerfall if your fatigue (why didn't they call it stamina?) hits zero you fall over and pass out. If you happen to be in the wilderness or a dungeon you're probably dead. If you happen to be in a city street you're under arrest.

One of the prevailing opinions on the Bethesda forums is they keep trying to streamline elements of the gameplay to attract more teenage console players. The problem with that is most of the new people they want to attract aren't interested at all in an Elder Scrolls game. Many of them really do like RPGs with loads of numbers, but are scared of a game that doesn't tell you what to do all the time. I think I agree. I have loads of friends who don't know what to do with themselves in a game like Skyrim and basically refuse to play it as a result.

[Grazza]

Some people posting in this thread might wish to consider cooling down the rhetoric somewhat.

[Aliotroph?]

Vordakk said:

In my current game, Duke just told an enemy, "I'm gonna kill you OLD STYLE!" This is a reference to a Ventrilo Harassment clip in which a kid's mom on a Ventrilo server is tormented by a guy using a Duke Nukem 3D soundboard. She eventually screams, "I'm gonna kill you motherfucker, OLD STYLE!" She's later reduced to a whimpering mess from the constant Dukespeak she's being assaulted with.

So, best reference ever?

LOL They broke the mind of a whiny, NYC bitch. The guy deserves a medal for that. I HATE those women. Worst. Customers. Ever.

[Craigs]

Xeros612 said:
You don't have to strictly stick to the build you made;

Yes you do, especially in Morrowind. If you don't specialize in, say spears, you won't be able to hit a single thing with it. Also you won't level up if you don't level up your major/minor skills (major skills only in Oblivion).

Fallout 3 isn't even a TES game, so I don't know why the fuck you're bringing it up in a subdiscussion that's clearly about TES. But yes, it IS rather casual compared to older cRPGs. Even then, it's more complex than Skyrim because *gasp* it had ATTRIBUTES and MAJOR SKILLS, and if you screwed up your build you had to either start over or WORK to fix it.

I'm mentioning Fallout (not just Fallout 3) because it's also an RPG. And the major skills didn't mean shit. All it meant was that you had a slight bonus in those skills at the beginning of the game. You could specialize in small guns at the beginning of the game but put points into big guns instead until you could just ditch your small guns altogether in favor of big guns. You couldn't do that in the earlier TES games unless you wanted to spend a lot of money to have people train those skills for you.

Full implementation of attributes(they exist for one, they affect your skills for another)

I actually remember both personality and luck being pretty much useless in Morrowind. Luck was useless because, well, it really didn't do anything. Personality was pretty useless too because if you really needed to convince someone to like you you could just bribe them (Gold wasn't hard to come by and one of the first quests takes you to a dwemer ruin where you can get items worth enough gold to last you a looong time).

speechcraft implementation that utilised your character's speechcraft skill instead of some awful minigame(Oblivion) or replacing it with Mercantilism

Morrowind's speech minigame is the exact same as Oblivion's and nobody bothers with it for the same reason I mentioned on the last quote. And no, they didn't just replace with mercantilism. They just combined the two. There's still dialogue choices that require a speech check. They just function like in FO3 where you have a chance to fail or succeed that depends on your speech skill.

health and magicka don't easymode regenerate like every other easy game these days...

Maybe you should actually try playing the game. Health regenerates so slowly that it really doesn't help at all in combat.

Nice bullshit, chanfag.

Speaking of which you're sounding a lot like one of those morrowind fanboys on /v/ who jump in to every skyrim discussion they can find and start posting images from various Morrowind mods bragging about how much better it is.

[dew]

Xeros612 said:

and the most simplified, consolized Elder Scrolls game ever a higher rating than Morrowind.

hello. i know you probably believe you're hot shit and totally old school, but you probably don't know pc gaming history as much as you think. remember Redguard? i didn't think so. now apologize to skyrim for your lies.

also let's not lie to ourselves - you can't point at ANY of the TES games and say their RPG system is the best. daggerfall had a lot of junk skills, who the thell cared about levelling up... harpyish or spriggan..ish. then morrowind got rid of them, but fucked up and made leveling waaaay too easy, so after a few training hours, the juggernaut player just steamrolled everything in the game, with the exception of the final dungeons of the addons. then oblivion kinda fixed that, but fucked up and made everything level up with you, so actually leveling up became half-meaningless. i've never played arena, so maybe they did it right the first time.

you are an angry, volatile young man with just a sliver of other people's experience, so you might reconsider acting like you know more than they do.

[Vordakk]

I'm now at the part 3 of the Duke Burger stage and loving it. I like how you can have mindless interactions with stuff, usually resulting in some crude sexual innuendo. The strip club dream sequence was the best use of a technically "useless" stage I've ever seen. I also thought the part where you are shrunken and running through the burger kitchen was really well done. I honestly didn't see what was so bad about the Hive level. I'll have to read some reviews where people talk about it in detail, but for me it was fine.

Clearly the game isn't phenomenal, and the "modern" aspects like regenerating health, overuse of the "use" function, and limited weapon-carrying are all turn-offs, but I've been chuckling and giggling ever since I fired it up, and it does manage to take me back to 1996 a lot of the time. And the fact that this game(as well as Duke Nukem 3D) offended hordes of politically-correct people makes it all the more charming to me.

[julz_d]

I bought this game for 10 dollars. Got every achievement and got the DLC on XBL. Had a hell of a lot more fun with it than any in the COD series. Load times sucked though.

[Avoozl]

julz_d said:

I bought this game for 10 dollars. Got every achievement and got the DLC on XBL. Had a hell of a lot more fun with it than any in the COD series. Load times sucked though.

In my opinion anything is better than CoD and the only CoD I have ever enjoyed was Finest Hour on my GameCube which before I even had a gaming pc. :P

[Aliotroph?]

Craigs said:

Yes you do, especially in Morrowind. If you don't specialize in, say spears, you won't be able to hit a single thing with it. Also you won't level up if you don't level up your major/minor skills (major skills only in Oblivion).

Nope. It's far easier to stick with your build at the start, but it's easy to level up anything you want with no penalty and change how you play. I did this because I decided archery and shortblade weren't all I wanted. Ended up playing archery, longblade and loads of support magic. Then I leveled up all my other skills just because I could. Skyrim is the first game to limit your ability to do that by limiting how many perks you can have.

Craigs said:

Morrowind's speech minigame is the exact same as Oblivion's and nobody bothers with it for the same reason I mentioned on the last quote. And no, they didn't just replace with mercantilism. They just combined the two. There's still dialogue choices that require a speech check. They just function like in FO3 where you have a chance to fail or succeed that depends on your speech skill.

Morrowind's speech minigame consists of choosing actions and then seeing what they do to an NPC's disposition. Taunt the guy 20 times and he'll probably attack you, allowing you to get a bounty-free kill. Weee!

Oblivion's game was much different. Increasing disposition involved using all four of the options in a sequence based on your skill and the NPC's personality as rapidly as possible (disposition drops on a timer). It felt like some kind of contrived speed-dating game and was frustrating to master. Very different and utterly silly.

[geo]

Steam was selling Rage for $15 earlier this week. Ouch.