MasterofJKD Posted December 21, 2011 So I know many people have a certain style to there mapping, I was just curious to hear what other people do, what they do to make their pwads actually good. Or what traits they find in other pwads that really make the level good. I'm just looking for guidelines to make my maps really fun to play. Is it the amount of traps, the amount of rooms or detail? 0 Share this post Link to post
Use Posted December 21, 2011 It certainly isn't detail or amount of rooms, it's all about making something fun and unique. Really it just takes practice, like anything. 0 Share this post Link to post
purist Posted December 21, 2011 It's been said so many times before that it must be true: The way to improve your maps is to play others. Play ones that you think are good and work out why. Use these ideas in your own maps. For me if you get the following right you won't go far wrong: Layout/Mapflow: Arrange your areas in an interesting manner and trace the route(s) the player will move through the map, making sure it has a natural intuitive direction. Don't let the player get lost. I find it helps to either draw it out in paper or the skeleton of the layout in the map editor before really getting started. Setpieces: These are what I called the more choreographed battles. You will have to decide on these before finishing you layout so that they fit seemlessly. You don't need set-piece after set-piece in a map. Break them up with roaming monsters to avoid giving the player the failing the gameplay is being too "forced". Thing placement: It really is worth dwelling over. Think about why you are placing things. Some people are too happy just to just make the map and populate it seemingly by random. Atmosphere/Theme: If the others are in place you probably already have decent map. The rest is just the cherry on the top. Interesting architecture, contrasting lighting, considered texture use and tasteful detailing will give the map a feeling that you are in an actual place with it's own personality and story.EDIT: Found my old Doom mapping philosphy, which I had pasted onto an older thread with a similar topic 0 Share this post Link to post
Phml Posted December 21, 2011 making something fun Indeed, it's all there is to it. I'm not big on uniqueness as a design focus myself, all too often fun gets sacrificed for the sake of originality. Reinventing the wheel every single time rather than learning lessons is a bit counterproductive in my opinion ; if anything, good design comes with practice simply because, consciously or not we start to develop rules and patterns, keeping what works and throwing away what doesn't. There's really one reason to make uniqueness a priority, to make your stuff stand out from everything else. In a commercial environment that's more sales, in amateur circles that's more popularity. It's hard to deny either of these things as generally good things for the individual, the designer that is, but the quality of the product itself tends to take a hit as a result. No doubt some people will disagree with the above, and really the first thing to consider here is what kind of Doom maps do you like yourself. It's not too hard to identify objectively bad or good maps given a specific style, but as a whole there's plenty of different playstyles out there, so different that in some cases what makes a map fun for person A will automatically make that map unfun for person B, and the other way around. 0 Share this post Link to post
Use Posted December 21, 2011 Not getting hung up on pedantry like computer textures in hallways will also help significantly. :P 0 Share this post Link to post
esselfortium Posted December 21, 2011 Setting a mood, being aware of how your room shapes and sizes (and every door, lift, and trap you make) impact the player's movement ability and how each of them will affect fight strategies, using contrasts in scale and lighting, interconnecting areas to create more complex scenes from the sum of multiple parts (and to create more involving battles), use of height variation to stage more unique fights and to create a greater sense of physical progression through the map... I like Huy Pham's Random Thoughts on Mapping from the Deus Vult II textfile. There's a lot of good information in there. 0 Share this post Link to post
Vordakk Posted December 21, 2011 esselfortium said:interconnecting areas to create more complex scenes from the sum of multiple parts (and to create more involving battles) Man I'm glad you mentioned this. I keep meaning to get better at this but never do it. The way you said it really nails home how important this can be. 0 Share this post Link to post
Avoozl Posted December 21, 2011 One thing I've noticed with people in their opinion on map making is that they don't consider every method good to use, instead they split every method in two halves with one half being what they feel is acceptable to use and the other half being what they feel is unacceptable to use, they just add more of what they feel is good and less of what they feel is bad and never do they consider balancing any of the two, kind of like with the whole gameplay vs graphics thing if you get what I mean, I feel it is best to even it out in a 50/50 manner rather than 75/25 with the believed to be best methods of doing it as a bigger half. 0 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted December 21, 2011 Doomsfall said:One thing I've noticed with people in their opinion on map making is that they don't consider every method good to use, instead they split every method in two halves with one half being what they feel is acceptable to use and the other half being what they feel is unacceptable to use, they just add more of what they feel is good and less of what they feel is bad and never do they consider balancing any of the two, kind of like with the whole gameplay vs graphics thing if you get what I mean, I feel it is best to even it out in a 50/50 manner rather than 75/25 with the believed to be best methods of doing it as a bigger half. eh? what's that? more riddles? 0 Share this post Link to post
kristus Posted December 21, 2011 Well, when I've finished prettin' up mah map like a 2 dolla' hooka' I shove a shitload of 'nemies in there so gets to suffer like I had suffered making the map. Then I upload to the internets and collect my cacowards. 0 Share this post Link to post
Rambosee Posted December 22, 2011 Mark of a good mapper? If he chooses gameplay over detail. 0 Share this post Link to post
TheDarkArchon Posted December 22, 2011 Rambosee said:Mark of a good mapper? If he chooses gameplay over detail. And here I was being fooled into thinking that a good mapper is able to produce something visually appealing while at the same time is very enjoyable. Silly me. 0 Share this post Link to post
elic Posted December 22, 2011 Rambosee said:Mark of a good mapper? If he chooses gameplay over detail. Ugh, this becoming the cliched expression (IE "Believe in yourself!") of doom modding. Not everybody thinks that action alone makes or breaks a map. I think all aspects of mapping (gameplay, visual design, layouts, atmosphere, etc.) should be held in equal priority. 0 Share this post Link to post
darkreaver Posted December 22, 2011 I am one of the the few that actually puts atmosphere and the setting higher than gameplay and "fun". I really need to be able to immerse myself in a map or its not worth my time. As for gameplay, well...as long as there is stuff to kill, I`m happy. (I have a soft spot for brutal surprise traps though, like "shiiiiit, all hell breaks loose!") That being said: no, I dont play Doom that much. ps: this post made it sound like I dont care about gameplay at ALL...well, I do =) 0 Share this post Link to post
Platinum Shell Posted December 22, 2011 Placing ammo in little nooks and crannies and corners. To get the best feel for it, look at places WOS puts ammo, in the base levels. Not only does it give the player more of a rush when they find it, it also feels more rewarding to find this, and give a positive reaction to it. It can also add a unique challenge; store most of a map's ammo in little tucked away hidden places. 0 Share this post Link to post
HavoX Posted December 22, 2011 ...... In my humble opinion, if I were to make a map (which I have yet to do), I'd do details first, then focus on gameplay. That, or I could do this the other way around. After all, balance is the key to success, is it not? ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
MasterofJKD Posted December 22, 2011 esselfortium said:Setting a mood, being aware of how your room shapes and sizes (and every door, lift, and trap you make) impact the player's movement ability and how each of them will affect fight strategies, using contrasts in scale and lighting, interconnecting areas to create more complex scenes from the sum of multiple parts (and to create more involving battles), use of height variation to stage more unique fights and to create a greater sense of physical progression through the map... I like Huy Pham's Random Thoughts on Mapping from the Deus Vult II textfile. There's a lot of good information in there. Is it possible if you could get me the link to that text file? I'm curious to see what he says. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted December 22, 2011 MasterofJKD said:Is it possible if you could get me the link to that text file? I'm curious to see what he says. http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15238 You can read it from there directly, though it might be more comfortable to Ctrl-A/Ctrl-C the whole deal then Ctrl-V it in a text editor for legibility. It's a long document with a lot of other stuff first. 0 Share this post Link to post
Marcaek Posted December 22, 2011 HavoX said:...... In my humble opinion, if I were to make a map (which I have yet to do), I'd do details first, then focus on gameplay. That, or I could do this the other way around. After all, balance is the key to success, is it not? ;) It's possible to do both at the same time, make your detail part of your gameplay and gameplay part of your detail. Personally, I think that's the mark of an excellent mapper. 0 Share this post Link to post
Melon Posted December 22, 2011 The mark of a good map? That's easy. Check the author name, if it says "Melon", then it's friggin' awesome. If it says anything else, it sucks humongous donkey balls. The same also applies to forum posts, clearly. 0 Share this post Link to post
fiend-o-hell Posted December 22, 2011 Oh and feedback from others. I find that play testing plays a critical component in the map design process, because no matter what, you the map designer will never find all the bugs never ever. Its true. Its a law of the universe. Go look it up. This is on top of what Melon already said... kristus said:Well, when I've finished prettin' up mah map like a 2 dolla' hooka' I shove a shitload of 'nemies in there so gets to suffer like I had suffered making the map. Then I upload to the internets and collect my cacowards. HeeHee 0 Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted December 22, 2011 Melon said:The mark of a good map? That's easy. Check the author name, if it says "Melon", then it's friggin' awesome. If it says anything else, it sucks humongous donkey balls. The same also applies to forum posts, clearly. I made a joke like that but it got deleted :'( Obviously the mods think my maps suck humungous donkey balls... 0 Share this post Link to post