WTF? The NDAA was signed by Obama...

[shadow1013]

What is wrong with the US I swear, it's so anti-constitutional that it's crazy

[terminator44]

You've been reported to the Department of Homeland Insecurity. Have fun at Gitmo.

[TMD]

Its amazing how well protesting works :)

[shadow1013]

Well that's no fun :( But in all seriousness, I thought that congress and Obama would realize how against the US Constitution it is.

[Snakes]

Wait , what constitution? Never heard of it.

[Whoo]

This government likes to think that shouting "IT DEFENDS AGAINST TERRORISM!!!!" justifies any bill or law. Shit like this seriously makes me want to move out of this country once I'm old enough and have enough money.

[Technician]

shadow1013 said:

Well that's no fun :( But in all seriousness, I thought that congress and Obama would realize how against the US Constitution it is.

HAHAHA! Like they give a shit.

Whoo said:

This government likes to think that shouting "IT DEFENDS AGAINST TERRORISM!!!!" justifies any bill or law. Shit like this seriously makes me want to move out of this country once I'm old enough and have enough money.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

-Benjamin Franklin

[Scripten]

Technician said:

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

-Benjamin Franklin

I -think- that quote is more for general freedom, not the US PATRIOT WE ARE THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY kind. Moving out isn't really a bad option as it stands.

Unless of course I misunderstood your intention in using the quote.

[Marnetmar]

BUT GISE

TERRERIESTS!!11

[hex11]

They're always lurking in the shadows, waiting for the right moment to strike...
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/1/20/128769420722795836.jpg

[Sharessa]

This is why I unfriended Obama on Facebook and am not voting for him again ever.

[Tango]

i tried pointing out the wrongness of the bill to one of my conservative uncles and he basically said to me:

"whatever, i bet you haven't even read the whole bill, therefore you know nothing. that article you're reading from just made it up and is super biased. you gonna go occupy something?!?!? huh?!?!?"

[eargosedown]

But if we don't indefinitely detain individuals without trial, the terrorists win.

[Vordakk]

Danarchy said:

This is why I unfriended Obama on Facebook and am not voting for him again ever.

You and Obama were facebook pals. Jesus...

[GreyGhost]

According to this article Obama signed the bill despite having "serious reservations with certain provisions" and even if he's no intention of having people detained indefinitely, the door has been left open for his successors. Bad move.

[Scripten]

GreyGhost said:

According to this article Obama signed the bill despite having "serious reservations with certain provisions" and even if he's no intention of having people detained indefinitely, the door has been left open for his successors. Bad move.

Admittedly, in this case, I can't see where he'd have much of a choice. The senate pretty much promised to overturn his veto. I would have preferred he'd done it anyway, nevertheless.

[Vordakk]

Tango said:

i tried pointing out the wrongness of the bill to one of my conservative uncles and he basically said to me:

"whatever, i bet you haven't even read the whole bill, therefore you know nothing. that article you're reading from just made it up and is super biased. you gonna go occupy something?!?!? huh?!?!?"

Seems to me that if your uncle was truly conservative, he'd be totally against this bill and would be outraged that it went through with bipartisan support. Given the government's abysmal track record when it comes to "doing the right thing", granting it with the power to suspend a writ of habeas corpus is a horrible idea. They now can detain anyone who speaks out against their agenda indefinitely. Not good.

[Maes]

Vordakk said:

They now can detain anyone who speaks out against their agenda indefinitely. Not good.

Irrelevant. Someone could argue that humanity did relatively fine for most of its recorded history (literally, thousands of years) with absolutely no hint of modern democracy, human rights or constitutions, and, Boy, look at'em now! So why making such a big deal of it now? Just bring back the good old times, with the King's Guards and the stone dungeons with the torture chambers!

[Technician]

Membrain said:

I -think- that quote is more for general freedom, not the US PATRIOT WE ARE THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY kind. Moving out isn't really a bad option as it stands.

Unless of course I misunderstood your intention in using the quote.

Quite the opposite. Anyone who sacrifices individual rights and freedoms in the sake of safety need to get the fuck out. I value a country based on the rights and freedoms it grants it's people. And history has proven once you give them up, you won't get them back. A government offering protection from boogeymen usually doesn't have your well being particularly in mind.

Membrain said:

Admittedly, in this case, I can't see where he'd have much of a choice. The senate pretty much promised to overturn his veto. I would have preferred he'd done it anyway, nevertheless.

He still should have denied it, even for posterity sake.

Maes said:
Irrelevant. Someone could argue that humanity did relatively fine for most of its recorded history (literally, thousands of years) with absolutely no hint of modern democracy, human rights or constitutions, and, Boy, look at'em now! So why making such a big deal of it now? Just bring back the good old times, with the King's Guards and the stone dungeons with the torture chambers![/B]

Fuck humanity, the individual maters.

[Vordakk]

Maes said:

...humanity did relatively fine for most of its recorded history with absolutely no hint of modern democracy, human rights or constitutions...

Define "relatively fine" :)

[Maes]

Technician said:

Fuck humanity, the individual maters.

Still, said pro-King's-dungeons advocates would tell you that, well, individuals existed and even flourished in those "dark" times, no? And even if there were not 6bn of them around roaming the earth, there still were a fucking whole lot of them in major cities at all eras and times (the fact that most of them were disease-ridden, lawless shitholes didn't matter).

[GreyGhost]

Maes said:

Someone could argue that humanity did relatively fine for most of its recorded history (literally, thousands of years) with absolutely no hint of modern democracy, human rights or constitutions, and, Boy, look at'em now!

Someone could also argue that most of recorded history is a litany of gross exaggerations and outright lies, concocted to glorify whoever happened to be in charge at the time. Regardless of how inept, draconian and/or delusional our ruling classes may happen to be, humanity survives - if nothing else we're great survivors.

[Maes]

GreyGhost said:

Regardless of how inept, draconian and/or delusional our ruling classes may happen to be, humanity survives - if nothing else we're great survivors.

Damn right. So get back in da dungeon, ya slave. After all, you -or at least someone else- are going to survive, no?

@Vordakk: pretty much what Greyghost said. Mere survival. Can't argue against that, no? After all the King is letting you live ;-)

[Bucket]

I used to be able to depend on Democrats doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and Republicans doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Now the Republicans are wrong all around and the Democrats call it bipartisanship.

[Gez]

Vordakk said:

You and Obama were facebook pals. Jesus...

You should try friending this guy.

[Csonicgo]

Vordakk said:

Seems to me that if your uncle was truly conservative, he'd be totally against this bill and would be outraged that it went through with bipartisan support. Given the government's abysmal track record when it comes to "doing the right thing", granting it with the power to suspend a writ of habeas corpus is a horrible idea. They now can detain anyone who speaks out against their agenda indefinitely. Not good.

BINGO!

[Quasar]

Just the tool the Rethuglicans will need against the mass uprising that's sure to follow their resumption of the full-scale culture war once they manage to get back in office - outlawing abortion the rest of the way, persecuting homosexuals, making bullying into a protected form of religious expression, taxing the poor to give to the rich, dismantling what little remains of environmental protection and organized labor, and of course, nuking Iran.

[Sharessa]

I'm pretty sure the Democrats are going to abuse this, too.

Maes said:

Irrelevant. Someone could argue that humanity did relatively fine for most of its recorded history (literally, thousands of years) with absolutely no hint of modern democracy, human rights or constitutions, and, Boy, look at'em now! So why making such a big deal of it now? Just bring back the good old times, with the King's Guards and the stone dungeons with the torture chambers!

Time for a peasant revolt.

[Maes]

Danarchy said:

Time for a peasant revolt.

In that case, expect a massive "emergency internal security" police/paramilitary force being created and staffed by criminals and thugs at the government's service to brutally quell any attempt at a revolt without having to properly train them as police officers. A professional "friendly neighborhood cop" straight out of the academy may have reservations due to the constitution and all that, but a criminal-made-cop doesn't.

In the US the problem is that you have a way too large criminal population -either behind bars or roaming your streets- which would be all too eager to cooperate with an oppressive government in exchange for favourable treatment and "official bully" status, earning medals and a salary for kicking/shooting your dissenting ass with the blessings of the government. After all, they don't give a shit about the bills that supposedly oppress you, because they were always at stakes with the law anyway.

Sadly, the Nazis knew this trick all too well: e.g. the SA as well as their "best" anti-partisan units were composed of dangerous penal criminals (like the infamous Dirlewanger Brigade). Also, Kapos in concentration camps usually were common criminals, which were much more cooperative with authorities and ready to abuse the -relative- authority they were granted over those weaker than them.

[Vordakk]

Gez said:

You should try friending this guy.

Don't have a facebook account, sorry.