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DuckReconMajor

SOPA website protests

How do you feel about various websites blocking out their content today?  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about various websites blocking out their content today?

    • I think this is a great way to inform people.
      86
    • I agree with the cause, but think this could have been handled better.
      13
    • I dont support the anti-SOPA/PIPA cause.
      2
    • Other
      4


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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page - probably the most dramatic example

I didn't see another thread on this. Several websites have blocked out their content today, presumably to give users a taste of what will happen if this bill goes through. (article Quast linked in other thread)

Of course I'm sure we probably all agree on how we feel about SOPA/PIPA, but my question is: do you feel these websites should be doing this to their users? Of course, these are their websites, they can do whatever they want. Wikipedia people admit that this goes against Wikipedia's political neutrality policy. However, since this bill threatens the site's existence itself, they feel it is necessary

Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director, Sue Gardner says:
In making this decision, Wikipedians will be criticized for seeming to abandon neutrality to take a political position. That’s a real, legitimate issue. We want people to trust Wikipedia, not worry that it is trying to propagandize them.

But although Wikipedia’s articles are neutral, its existence is not.

I think that this is a great way to protest this bill, and feel that it's not being done in a way that is too extreme, especially given the circumstances. I think it forces people to consider the consequences without being too forceful as to antagonize their user bases.

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I can never agree with this method of protest, regardless of whether the cause is justified - which it IS in this case, don't get me wrong. It's rather like workers striking in retaliation to some injustice served upon them. There has to be better ways of making your point than halting the production of a product or cutting off the service you provide to people.

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My name is Kristus and I approve of this message.

DoomUK said:

I can never agree with this method of protest, regardless of whether the cause is justified - which it IS in this case, don't get me wrong. It's rather like workers striking in retaliation to some injustice served upon them. There has to be better ways of making your point than cutting off the service you provide to people or halting the production of a product.

Such as? What do you actually have to say about it other than, I DISAPPROVE? Be as constructive as you ask others to be.

Also, striking is the one method that workers actually got that can make a difference for them in desparate cases. In a powerstruggle, you use what tools are available to you. Workers really only got that one tool, where they use their collective strength to force change. It's not about making a point, it's about raising awareness and as I said, forcing change when the powers that be is working against the publics interests.

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I think it's a great way to inform people, but at the same time it could be handled much better and to greater effect. Wikipedia blacks itself out for 24 hours, imagine if google did that instead of just putting a black bar over their logo. What if all of the sites that oppose SOPA did this in true solidarity? Wikipedia, google, youtube, facebook, reddit, twitter, ebay?

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kristus said:

Such as? What do you actually have to say about it other than, I DISAPPROVE? Be as constructive as you ask others to be.

Also, striking is the one method that workers actually got that can make a difference for them in desparate cases. In a powerstruggle, you use what tools are available to you. Workers really only got that one tool, where they use their collective strength to force change. It's not about making a point, it's about raising awareness and as I said, forcing change when the powers that be is working against the publics interests.

You could raise awareness by spreading the word to every corner of the internet instead of spitefully retaliating to an even more spiteful bill which is being made up by people in the US Congress who probably don't even know what they're talking about. I honestly don't see how temporarily taking something away that's being threatened with closure on a permanent basis is anything except cattiness, or an act of desperation at best.

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Generally speaking I dislike strikes and yet I approve this. To even compare the two is ludicrous ; loud people on the street blocking the way as well as public transports for the sake of getting more money or working less on one end, non-profit organisations stopping to provide a non-essential service as to raise awareness about a bill that threatens their very existence on the other end... Apples and oranges.

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Metal-Archives is also doing this. I highly approve with the way websites are handling this.

http://www.metal-archives.com/

DoomUK said:

You could raise awareness by spreading the word to every corner of the internet instead of spitefully retaliating to an even more spiteful bill which is being made up by people in the US Congress who probably don't even know what they're talking about. I honestly don't see how temporarily taking something away that's being threatened with closure on a permanent basis is anything except cattiness, or an act of desperation at best.

Shutting down a website and providing a reason for it is much more effective and commands more attention than simply posting a thread about it at some forum or politely putting a banner up. And really, the situation is urgent enough that it is justified.

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Quast said:

I think it's a great way to inform people, but at the same time it could be handled much better and to greater effect. Wikipedia blacks itself out for 24 hours, imagine if google did that instead of just putting a black bar over their logo. What if all of the sites that oppose SOPA did this in true solidarity? Wikipedia, google, youtube, facebook, reddit, twitter, ebay?

Sure it would be more effective if all those other websites would participate as well, but there's not way that would happen. Out of the ones you listed Wikipedia is the only non-profit organization, all the rest are businesses. Even if they oppose SOPA, there's no way they'd shut down their business for a day like that.

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DoomUK said:

It's rather like workers striking in retaliation to some injustice served upon them. There has to be better ways of making your point than halting the production of a product or cutting off the service you provide to people.

I don't quite understand why you would compare it to a historically effective method of protest and then try to claim it's a bad idea.

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DoomUK said:

You could raise awareness by spreading the word to every corner of the internet instead of spitefully retaliating...

stopped reading, brain couldn't take it anymore. what is this obedient citizen crap? you want to be made aware, but you don't agree with the most potent method of raising awareness. all that is missing is a laugh track to get this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgUktfdDy4#t=01m035s

strike on, internet!

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fraggle said:

a historically effective method of protest

Threats and acts of violence over a hypothetical issue can also be an effective way of raising awareness and obtaining justice. Just because something is effective doesn't mean I have to support it.

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DoomUK said:

Threats and acts of violence over a hypothetical issue can also be an effective way of raising awareness and obtaining justice.

How do you figure? All that is going to do is raise awareness of the impending threat of violence.

DoomUK said:

You could raise awareness by spreading the word to every corner of the internet instead of spitefully retaliating to an even more spiteful bill which is being made up by people in the US Congress who probably don't even know what they're talking about. I honestly don't see how temporarily taking something away that's being threatened with closure on a permanent basis is anything except cattiness, or an act of desperation at best.

Showing people what could happen if the bill is passed is cattiness? You really ought to pull your head out of your ass and think twice about this.

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I guess I just don't understand on a fundamental level why exactly you believe that this - or strikes - are somehow a bad thing.

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kristus said:

How do you figure? All that is going to do is raise awareness of the impending threat of violence.

Not what I meant at all. But I do think you know what I meant and you're looking for something to pick a fight over.

fraggle said:

I guess I just don't understand on a fundamental level why exactly you believe that this - or strikes - are somehow a bad thing.

Someone thinks differently than you do. I've already explained why I think this; if my explanation isn't satisfactory or you haven't got enough material to quote and rip apart, tough. The armchair politician inside me isn't as eager to demonstrate his argumentation skills as that of certain members of the Doomworld collective.

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fraggle said:

I guess I just don't understand on a fundamental level why exactly you believe that this - or strikes - are somehow a bad thing.


Move to a big city in a socialist country. Get in a relationship. Have some kids. You'll understand soon enough.

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DoomUK said:

Not what I meant at all. But I do think you know what I meant and you're looking for something to pick a fight over.

dew's pacifist-Rimmer comparison is certainly looking more and more accurate with each post.

Your attitude seems to be that protesting is fine as long as nobody is ever inconvenienced in the slightest. I think that's a ridiculous and frankly selfish attitude. It's perfectly correct and right that Wikipedia should stage a one day protest against a proposed law that potentially threatens its very existence. Nobody is being hurt by it and it will be back tomorrow. They've even deliberately done it in such a way that the blackout can be trivially worked around if you really need the information today.

Similarly with strikes - I can certainly take issue with specific strikes - for example, the BA workers' Christmas strike seemed needlessly mean and vindictive. But the idea that no strike can be justified is completely absurd. For certain jobs the threat of a strike is literally the only means available to workers to ensure good working conditions. There are a whole raft of workers' rights that simply would not exist today if unions hadn't used their power to get them. I find your point of view to be selfish, ignorant and sheltered.

I'll leave you with a quote from Frederick Douglass: “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

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Phml said:

Move to a big city in a socialist country. Get in a relationship. Have some kids. You'll understand soon enough.

so the protesters are inconveniencing your lifestyle when you don't want to be bothered. conformism is actually the typical mindset in real socialist countries that would never allow mass protesting or strikes. be glad your country is free and don't use stupid rightwinger labels.

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fraggle said:

I find your point of view to be selfish

What's selfish is striking because of "poor working conditions" (typically, not getting enough moneys) and putting your own quality of life ahead of the service you're getting paid to do in the first place. People are paid in return for providing some service to the rest of society, be it whatever. Taking that service away because you aren't satisfied with your wages isn't helping anyone except yourself.

Also, try striking when you're working in a minimum wage, unskilled job that serves as your livelihood all the same. You'd get told where to go and your position would be filled the next day. Strikes are the privilege of those who are fortunate enough to be able to refuse to go to work for a day/some other length of time.

Admittedly none of this is all that applicable to the anti-SOPA internet protests. But I guess I owed you a response since I brought it up in the first place.

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It's only a 24 hour "strike", I don't get how this could be a kick in the face of the internet users while SOPA looks very ugly in the long-term (I say this as a french however, we have our own problems with laws like HADOPI/LOPPSI here).

I think it's great that Google and Wikipedia (among others) try to raise awareness to people using their services every day.

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I saw that press release by the MPAA regarding the blackouts last night. My reaction to it was, "No John, YOU are the power abuser."

On a serious note however, I do believe the 24-hour blackouts are a great idea as it actually educates users about what MIGHT happen should this horribly flawed bill get passed.

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HavoX said:

I do believe the 24-hour blackouts are a great idea as it actually educates users about what MIGHT happen should this horribly flawed bill get passed.

I don't need to be enlightened by being thrown off a building by someone else to better understand what throwing myself off a building might feel like. My intellect is sufficiently developed to understand that it's a bad idea when it's explained to me.

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Say that to the vast majority of people for whom all of this story is too abstract. Those guys aren't trying to kill you. They just cut their websites for one day.

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DoomUK said:

I don't need to be enlightened by being thrown off a building by someone else to better understand what throwing myself off a building might feel like. My intellect is sufficiently developed to understand that it's a bad idea when it's explained to me.

Pardon my Old English, but you seem absolutely fucking clueless about how censorship awareness raising works. Merrily!

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K!r4 said:

It's only a 24 hour "strike", I don't get how this could be a kick in the face of the internet users while SOPA looks very ugly in the long-term.

I agree 100% here.

DoomUK said:

I don't need to be enlightened by being thrown off a building by someone else to better understand what throwing myself off a building might feel like. My intellect is sufficiently developed to understand that it's a bad idea when it's explained to me.

That's a terrible comparison, your taking it way out context.

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DoomUK said:

Also, try striking when you're working in a minimum wage, unskilled job that serves as your livelihood all the same. You'd get told where to go and your position would be filled the next day.


Right. This was the status quo for virtually all jobs after the industrial revolution, which is why people started organizing unions so they could strike effectively, which ultimately improved conditions for everyone. This kind of protest is necessary and effective even if you're too hilariously ignorant to see why.

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DoomUK said:

You could raise awareness by spreading the word to every corner of the internet instead

I think that if Wikipedia, Google, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook and Twitter all went completely offline for a full day in protest, there wouldn't be any corner of the Internet where awareness wouldn't be spread.

On the other hand, posting some thread in a game community forum isn't going to have much on an impact.

Taking people out of their comfort zone is the only way to effectively make the intellectually lazy masses to pay attention to what you're saying. That's why PSAs showing horribly mutilated corpses and crippled people on wheelchairs have been a lot more effective than merely repeating over and over "don't drink and drive".

With the half-assed method of just putting a small "no to SOPA/PIPA" banner somewhere on the page, people will just go "yeah, whatever, don't care, gimmie my search results".

DoomUK said:

people in the US Congress who probably don't even know what they're talking about.

Yeah, and that is the problem. They don't know what they're talking about, but they have power over it anyway. Kinda like when they put a Born Again Flat Earth Creationist in charge of school curriculum.

But there's the "democracy" angle. People in the US Congress are supposed to be representatives. If they get their whole constituency giving them hell about it, and making them perfectly aware that if they go with what the lobbies want them to vote, their political career is over and done with.

Creaphis said:

Right. This was the status quo for virtually all jobs after the industrial revolution, which is why people started organizing unions so they could strike effectively, which ultimately improved conditions for everyone. This kind of protest is necessary and effective even if you're too hilariously ignorant to see why.

It didn't improve conditions for everyone. It made it a lot worse for robber barons who had to redistribute the wealth produced by their workers instead of keeping it for themselves. :( Also customers no longer had the thrilling excitement of finding human fingers in their cans of processed meat. Damn stupid selfish unions, ruining the magic.

I mean, if these stupid workers actually deserved rights, they'd have enough money to have their own business!

Capitalism was a lot better when the Army was sent to open fire on strikers and demonstrators. Put these damn entitled-ass lazybutts right back in their rightful place.

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Gez said:

That's why PSAs showing horribly mutilated corpses and crippled people on wheelchairs have been a lot more effective than merely repeating over and over "don't drink and drive".

Must resist the urge to go many light years off topic and dispute this. Must. Resist.

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