Cleimos 2 map05

[Memfis]

What's up with this map? There is, uhh, a little problem with ammo. If it is so hard even by today's standards, how the hell people played it in 1995? Have any of you guys completed it in a reasonable time? Because I ran out of patience after I died somewhere in the middle (judging by the monster counter).

[SAV88]

VDGG completed it with 100/100 in 13:53.

[Memfis]

Yeah, I know. Of course it is much easier after studying the map in the editor, practicing with save games, etc. I'd like to hear people's first impressions of this map.

[Grazza]

Did you check DSDA? vdgg comments on the lack of ammo and the need for infighting here.

MAP05 - THE CLEANSING |
This map shows you don't need cyberdemos and arch-viles to create difficulties. One arachnotron, one revenant, one pain elemental plus really, really weak monsters. But when you equip the player with the chainsaw, shotgun and chaingun with *very* limited ammo, you'll see the point (I think no-one would create such a map nowadays, as all the testers would whine "needs more ammo!" :) ). I like this map very much, recording a Max demo was a good challenge for me.

(DC) Just to warn you, this demo has plenty of slow-paced action.

He makes a similar comment about map25. Probably back when it was released, they expected people not to play maps from a pistol start, or forgot to test each map in that respect.

I can't really give my first impressions of this map, since I first played it in the 1990s. But in general I like maps that force you to make do with very limited ammo, and enjoy non-berserk punching demons.

[vdgg]

I'd like to hear people's first impressions of this map.

I think I had read Andy's reviews first, then played in on HMP, and of course didn't bother about 100% kills, which makes it unnecessarily difficult.
When I returned to cleimos II last year and recorded a bunch of demos, I remembered that map very well. Visually it is one of Cleimos' best. As for the gameplay...

What's up with this map? There is, uhh, a little problem with ammo. If it is so hard even by today's standards, how the hell people played it in 1995?

One of these mappers made Icarus MAP28. There's also cleim20 MAP25. These guys just liked torturing players in a different way we're used to now :) Moving platforms, mazes and no ammo maps - that was their way.

So yes, I enjoyed this map. OTOH MAP25 was bad.

[kmxexii]

According to Phares, Excavations was made with the express purpose of "excavating" any and all ammo the player had accrued up to that point. His father actually doubled the amount of ammo originally present, I think, after testing it, to his son's chagrin. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't balance around pistol starts. Either way, it leaves demo recorders with a different kind of challenge.

[HavoX]

Grazza said:

...the need for infighting...

More proof that while your BFG may make you feel safe, the best weapon you possess isn't a gun... it's your brain. ;)

[T-Rex]

Steven Phares really forces you to use your ammo sparingly, and his maps, along with Rand (relation please?) in their Cleimos 2 megawad and Team TNT's Icarus, they didn't really had pistol start in mind. I noticed they had a thing for puzzles too with those moving platforms and mazes, so mindwork is needed. Thankfully, they're nowhere near as complex as the puzzles in the Eternal Doom maps, yet they still are intricate.

[kmxexii]

Steven is the son; Rand is the father.