Bye bye Occupy? (U.S.)

[DooMAD]

Apparently you're not allowed to protest anymore. Does it sound overly dramatic or fear mongering to say this sounds like the start of a police state? I would say I'm glad I don't live there, but alot of countries are probably heading in that direction.

[DoomUK]

So it's basically going to be illegal to say "I disagree with X" and stand around in certain "restricted" zones to make your point? Shit.

[NiTROACTiVE]

So we're not allowed to protest in the USA anymore! What a bunch of bullshit! Even though I never protested before, I seen what it's like. But I still think this is complete crap.

[Gez]

Well, that site obviously has a bias that's hard to dismiss; but yeah it is kinda true. It is mostly a reaction of the Internet. For decades, the governing elite -- the inbred milieu of the national-level politicians, corporate barons and media tycoons -- has been able to rule mostly uncontested because they controlled the means by which people could communicate.

Now it's really possible for grassroots movements to form up, spread and take action faster than they can react. It has already provoked the downfall of their ilk in some dictatorial countries, the so-called Arab Spring.

So they are scared of the populace, now more than ever before. They see their grasp on power weakening, and are taking steps to remedy this affront. One part is to crack down more severely on protesting, the other part is heavily monitoring communication networks, and especially the Internet.

[DooMAD]

Gez said:

Well, that site obviously has a bias that's hard to dismiss

Absolutely. But when governments do their best to ensure these issues aren't even mentioned in the mainstream media, all they're doing is driving people to sites with more extreme views. The more they try to pull this authoritarian bullshit in secret, the more extremists they'll create. It's like they're trying to put out a fire by dowsing it with petrol.

[Vordakk]

I couldn't help but notice that Ron Paul was one of 3 people who voted against the bill.

[MRB_Doom]

I joined a demonstration organized by Occupy Stockholm last week and when they visited a café and held their meeting, several members looked at me as if I was an undercover cop. A few of the other men and women identified themselves as active anti-racists. They then joined the Occupy movement here in Stockholm.

One guy who spoke very articulately about proposals and ideas during the meeting / general assembly crap even said that "right at this moment, when your smart phones are on and you're not talking to any one on it, the cops are listening."

So that was enough for me to not continue having any contact with those people.

As for the bill mentioned, Hell will soon transform into Limbo in the U.S., whatever that means.

[HavoX]

This is fucking stupid. That bill is full of fail and a waste of paperwork.

[PRIMEVAL]

Occupy was dumb, anyway. Pointless, idiotic, and shameful. Obama just laughs at them.

[Quasar]

It was none of those things, but IMO it is failing to achieve anything because of its adoption of a consumerist mentality, asking the powers that be to fix things instead of taking direct action.

[Vordakk]

Quasar said:

asking the powers that be to fix things instead of taking direct action.

What "direct action" is there to take? Violence? Boycotting goods and services? I'm genuinely interested.

[Quast]

Vordakk said:

What "direct action" is there to take? Violence? Boycotting goods and services? I'm genuinely interested.

Seeing as the movement itself (and protesting/striking in general) is direct action...I can only assume quasar is talking about "lighting matches" type direct action, arab spring type direct action. Or more likley, burny, bloody, squashed in 36 hours by the powers that be type direct action.

[Remilia Scarlet]

This is nothing but fear mongering from a very biased website. Most of what's in the new bill is already in place with other laws.

[gggmork]

MRB_Doom said:

So that was enough for me to not continue having any contact with those people.

Its called roving bug:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device
Richard Stallman says take the battery out when you're not using your cell phone (though I guess they could redesign new models so that works without the battery). The 'patriot' act probably allows them to.

Some argue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word) that hitler never did anything illegal. Just constantly legalize evil things.

All laws which are repugnant to the constitution are null and void:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxbxx8uQIDs

Or Chris Hedges is an interesting smart person to listen to about the general decline of things if you don't like Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr7XDkAHGnk
(just a short recent video, many longer ones on youtube)

Some factions of occupy did support direction action, like black bloc (sometimes spelled black block?). However it might be full of agent provocateurs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzVPxYEM_ew

One scary idea is drones, where the enforcement pawns of the elite could be robots soon, coldly carrying out any order with no risk that they'll refuse due to ethics.

I used to sell stuff on ebay, a major part of the modern economy probably, and can confirm with my own eyes that they engaged in bizarre inexplicable self destructive behavior, obvious to all sellers there. It really was as if the economy was intentionally imploded, on ebay at least. And elites might have done that on purpose so they can buy everything up for pennies on the dollar (another Jones theory).

[MRB_Doom]

gggmork said:

Its called roving bug:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device
Richard Stallman says take the battery out when you're not using your cell phone (though I guess they could redesign new models so that works without the battery). The 'patriot' act probably allows them to.

Some argue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word) that hitler never did anything illegal. Just constantly legalize evil things.

All laws which are repugnant to the constitution are null and void:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxbxx8uQIDs

Or Chris Hedges is an interesting smart person to listen to about the general decline of things if you don't like Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr7XDkAHGnk
(just a short recent video, many longer ones on youtube)

So basically in the end we will all serve Satan and have massive orgies / mutilations beyond eternity in a dimension of pure chaos and evil?

[darknation]

get off my lawn you fuckin' hippy

[Reisal]

This bill is unconstitutional and should be struck down as restricting the freedom to assemble.

[hex11]

Yeah, but nobody except Ron Paul and a couple others actually care about the US Constitution anymore. They may claim to, but it's only their voting record that matters in the end.

[fraggle]

DooMAD said:

Apparently you're not allowed to protest anymore.

This doesn't seem like a good source. In fact it's a great example of sensationalism. If you read the actual text of the bill it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as that article tries to make out.

It certainly isn't anywhere near as bad as the law here in the UK. Fun fact: if I were to leave my house carrying a placard and walk 300m up the road in the wrong direction, I could theoretically be arrested.

[printz]

fraggle said:

It certainly isn't anywhere near as bad as the law here in the UK. Fun fact: if I were to leave my house carrying a placard and walk 300m up the road in the wrong direction, I could theoretically be arrested.

You don't say. They almost sounded the alarm because I had a giant guitar bag on my back and stood in front of the store, waiting.

[myk]

Gez said:
It is mostly a reaction of the Internet. For decades, the governing elite -- the inbred milieu of the national-level politicians, corporate barons and media tycoons -- has been able to rule mostly uncontested because they controlled the means by which people could communicate.

Now it's really possible for grassroots movements to form up, spread and take action faster than they can react. It has already provoked the downfall of their ilk in some dictatorial countries, the so-called Arab Spring.

I think that while the Internet helps, people have always had ways to mobilize without it, so there are other causes in addition. The private financial system really went global at the turn of the century and is now massive and more of an economic and political threat even to the populations of the developed world, much like it has been to the rest of the planet for centuries. Many changes also take place, that stir populations which during other periods were politically more passive or dormant. As you suggest, the difference is tied to technology, but it's more broad and pervasive than just the fact that it adds ways to communicate for protest. All the interconnectivity from enhanced technology and global interaction mobilize and incite politically.

yukib1t said:
Most of what's in the new bill is already in place with other laws.

Check the reply below by indi50 to see what the article is alerting about. The Reddit commenter either misread or wants to downplay the issue.

fraggle said:
This doesn't seem like a good source. In fact it's a great example of sensationalism.

What I see is the article giving situations where the wording in the law can be used to force and help the disruption of protests, which often take place in front of or even within the type of places described to have effect. Even much less paranoid legislation is used against dissent, so it's not hard to imagine how this can be used to cow down protesters even more.

[DooMAD]

fraggle said:

This doesn't seem like a good source. In fact it's a great example of sensationalism. If you read the actual text of the bill it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as that article tries to make out.

I dunno... doesn't seem all that sensationalist after seeing the farce with people arrested for dancing at the Lincoln Memorial last year. Makes you wonder where it'll all end.

fraggle said:

It certainly isn't anywhere near as bad as the law here in the UK. Fun fact: if I were to leave my house carrying a placard and walk 300m up the road in the wrong direction, I could theoretically be arrested.

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, heh. It's all gone a bit Orwellian lately.

[Maes]

Despite all the technology, in the end it will have to boil down to billy-clubs, Plexiglas shields and possibly live firepower, if real changes are to be made.

The "bad" side is already fully-equipped, staffed by loyal and trained professionals and ready to use them, often with a legal entitlement and moral high ground. Are the twitter activists up to that level of opposition? Who will arm and equip them? Where are their armories, generals and field-lieutenants?

[hex11]

You don't really need a lot of weapons or training, the most important thing is determination. Even a (relatively) physically weak woman can take out a senator's (or other key person) kids, with a knife, club, or even improvised weapon. It all comes down to gaining trust, being allowed into a position where those opportunities are available, and being willing to sacrifice yourself. You think that's impossible? Suicide bomber do it all the time in the middle-east.

[Marcaek]

hex11 said:

You don't really need a lot of weapons or training, the most important thing is determination. Even a (relatively) physically weak woman can take out a senator's (or other key person) kids, with a knife, club, or even improvised weapon.

jesus christ

do you REALLY want to make yourself out to be a monster, illegitimizing your position and garnering sympathy for the people you oppose by using unnecessary force?

More importantly, do you rally want to do so by fucking killing children?

[Technician]

Marcaek said:

jesus christ

do you REALLY want to make yourself out to be a monster, illegitimizing your position and garnering sympathy for the people you oppose by using unnecessary force?

More importantly, do you rally want to do so by fucking killing children?

He stated the reality of the situation. Nowhere did he endorse it.

Also, some of the world's biggest monsters are heroes in the eye's of the winners.

[hex11]

We're not at that stage yet, not even close. But it could well be the end result if those in power keep making the wrong choices, and they actually start using real violence and prison camps against the population. That's when the peasants have enough and the guillotines come out.

[Fulgrim]

Yet another example that the US is going off a cliff that will be ignored by the sheeple because some one in power will tell them its a good thing.

[Darkman 4]

myk said:

I think that while the Internet helps, people have always had ways to mobilize without it, so there are other causes in addition. The private financial system really went global at the turn of the century and is now massive and more of an economic and political threat even to the populations of the developed world, much like it has been to the rest of the planet for centuries. Many changes also take place, that stir populations which during other periods were politically more passive or dormant. As you suggest, the difference is tied to technology, but it's more broad and pervasive than just the fact that it adds ways to communicate for protest. All the interconnectivity from enhanced technology and global interaction mobilize and incite politically.

The internet works both ways. News sites and right-wing political blogs were bombarded with a counter-campaign that painted the Occupiers as hippes and leeches that want to take your HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARZZ away (anything related to government funds is a very, very sensitive issue for most Americans because they personally feel they should have a say in everything government-related forever because every citizen pays taxes). It was spiteful and mean, but it worked.

[TMD]

Its about dang time.

*Sits back, grabs a drink and some popcorn, and gets ready to watch the world burn*