New map *concepts* (Skulltag)

[LightningBolt101]

*MAKE SURE YOU'RE RUNNING IN SKULLTAG WITH OPENGL*

http://www.mediafire.com/?9jgl2btyh346ytv

So I had an idea for a new map. Here are some screens.








These are just concepts. This is not an official map and I was just wondering how I could elaborate on this a bit more. That means design is very open for change.

For those of you who hate OpenGL, I'm afraid to say you won't be able to beat this map without it. It uses 3D floors, so have fun trying to get that working in software (not to sound bitter, of course).

Boss fight is just a concept. I'll change it up later.

So, tell me what you think. Love to get some feed back on what I can do with each area.

For those of you who love to complain about anything not vanilla, I respect your opinion, but I do not like mapping in vanilla. It really restricts creativity from a technical stand point. The use of ACS scripting allows for things like moving 3D platforms, messages, multiple actions for one line, boss battles, etc. While I respect those who make maps which are obviously greater looking than mine, I find the use of scripting to be very fun.

As for the use of Skulltag, I love its textures and weapons. That is all (its monsters are cool too, of course).

[dmdr]

Yeah alright this is an improvement over that last thing.
It's still really, really square and has no height variations, and the monsters are unthreatening (even the much vaunted boss fight, because it's main attack with the explosions just spazzes along the ground and can't hurt you), but it was a bit fun to play. Still very little here you couldn't do in vanilla though (hint: instadeath floors = voodoo doll, barrels + a crusher that gets activated when you fall off the edge. You could have rigged up a series of switches for the kill monster, open door type stuff as well. Oh and find out about transparent sectors, they do work in vanilla/software), even if you're not interested in vanilla mapping, and that's fine I'm not going to bust your chops about it, do at least try out some of the tricks rather than using scripts.

EDIT: no, that's unfair, the boss stands on a ledge. Try something that the player can reach or that restricts the player's vision or something next time.

Your next map is going to include:
A ledge (of the sort described above)
A lift
Some stairs
Some curves
Some non-90deg angles (in addition to the above; I mean corridors and rooms here, not just doors that lead to an orthogonal extension to an orthogonal room)

It is not going to have:
HUD messages that alert me to the fact some sort of monster has popped up in front of me (in fact I'd rather have no HUD messages at all, thanks)
ANY jumping sequences (they are annoying in FPSes were jumping is a core feature too)
Features that restrict my choice of renderer unnecessarily

Thanks.

[LightningBolt101]

By height variations I'm assuming you mean the floor.

So, let's get down to the things you'd like me to add.

>A ledge

You'll have to be more clear. I've changed the floor area for the boss battle if that makes a difference, so you don't find yourself taking two steps and dying now.

>A lift
>Some stairs

I'll tackle these both in one go. Maybe. I'm thinking of adding an ice area after the boss (or most likely before), so I may have some room for height variation there. As for the rest of the map, that's not the general direction I'm going for.

>Some curves

I may change the shapes of the cages to give players some additional room. For now, the map design is generally going to stay the same.

Now let's go over things you don't want to see.

>HUD messages

These are not to alert you that a monster has just spawned there. It's quite obvious when one has. This is just to add a little personality to it. While as fun as monotonously running around shooting stuff is, I figured I'd add little messages to give a more old school feel to it (in a classic video game sense, not a Doom sense, hence the music).

>Jumping sequences

I'm sorry, but I find these fun. I've played lots of Jumpmaze, so perhaps this is where I get this idea from. This is a concept I'm keeping in the map, and my personal choice. Jumping sequences are some of my favorite (but I'll admit, can be aggravating).

>Renderer

I don't see what the problem is here.

As to address some other things, I want 3D floors, not see-through bridges. While they may be cool, I'd like my players to be jumping on actual platforms, not sectors they can barely see. You're basically asking me to make the sequence worse by doing so.

Instant death floors are not a scripting feature, they're a ZDoom feature.

I will do this in vanilla, but only if you prove to me this entire map can be done in Vanilla without changing a single thing (besides the scripts, of course). Create the voodoo doll set up, the monster death event switches, the non see-through platforms, and a way to have jumping so the player does not immediately die as soon as he walks over a ledge. It's very common for players to call out things, but I need evidence for your claims.

Scripting is fun. If you're using ZDoom, it does not affect you in any way. Since this map requires Skulltag, it is in no way hindering your performance. You're basically asking me to handicap myself when making these maps, which is highly illogical. Like I said, scripting allows technical creativity without making it a burden, i.e. your voodoo doll set up.

You're allowed to call out things you find wrong, and I'm glad you do, but I'm allowed to call you out as well. I expect to see a vanilla version of my map that is unchanged since you claim it can be so easily done. By you, that is. I suspect you're a master map creator, so this should be easy, right? Also, do not tell me what I'm updating. I'll update what I wish to update, and if your ideas veer off the direction I'm going for, then I'm not doing it. While some things I can agree on, such as room and height variation, not everything you say is gold to me. Do not tell people what they are adding and removing. Suggest it. Just a little help since most of the people here seem to have this idea that in order to critique properly you must force your opinion on the mapper. Of course there are those who do not do this, and they're the ones I appreciate.

A door and a lift will only go so far. This is where Skulltag steps in, and for that, I appreciate it.

[dmdr]

Well obviouisly some things had to be changed; jumping sucks anyway so I used the transparent sector trick to make the player unsure of their footing (follow the candles, and if you keep falling off turn on easy mode, there's extra blood so you can see where you're going), .deh can't simulate decorate monsters (three barons, two flanking you, instead), and you can't use 'on death' scripts so I changed the architecture a bit so you'd have to kill the monsters in order to hit the switches necessary to proceed (or in one case, created a timed battle). I also learned something about vanilla today, which is that barrels destroyed in a crusher can't hurt you (this is a Boom feature, apparently), but a -20 health sector and that same crusher applied to a voodoo doll are still a lethal combination. Lastly, the player can't be disarmed without killing them, but that was pretty pointless given you gave them a very powerful weapon 10 seconds later anyway.

I'm sure you'll berate me for the lack of 3d floors etc. and for the handful of visual glitches remaining but the gameplay is largely intact (and, frankly, the boss fight is more enjoyable now, despite your assertion) which is all I really wanted to prove.

http://www.mediafire.com/?59qqunxfe0oa2kn

Oh and the reason I told you to use those things is because those are the things that make levels visually interesting, not because I'm trying to enforce my will on you. Remember your first thread when you asked what people wanted to see and what they like in maps and they said precisely those things? Practice them.

Also, quick question, do you actually like Doom? Your comments about the basic gameplay are quite negative.

[Grain of Salt]

[Guest]

Grain of Salt said:

Also, here's a quick recipe for an instant death floor that you must touch to activate (IE, you can go over it without being hurt). It uses complevel 9, not 2, for reasons explained below.

- Replace the blue skull key image with a blank.
- Replace the "picked up a blue skull key" text with nothing.
- Cover the floor that kills you in blue skull keys.
- Have a voodoo doll that is constantly passing over a walkover locked door linedef, that requires a blue skull key. (This is the part that requires complevel 9. You could do the same thing in complevel 2 by having the walkover lockeddoor linedefs in the same place as the blue keys, but nothing would happen if you fell straight down.)
- Have the linedef trigger a crusher over a voodoo doll when the the player has the blue key.

The downside is that you lose one key, but in complevel 9 you get six unique keys, so unless your standalone map is extremely big, this shouldn't be a problem.

What a neat trick this is.

Thanks GoS

[Grain of Salt]

[HavoX]

Grain of Salt said:

Also, here's a quick recipe for an instant death floor that you must touch to activate (IE, you can go over it without being hurt). It uses complevel 9, not 2, for reasons explained below.

- Replace the blue skull key image with a blank.
- Replace the "picked up a blue skull key" text with nothing.
- Cover the floor that kills you in blue skull keys.
- Have a voodoo doll that is constantly passing over a walkover locked door linedef, that requires a blue skull key. (This is the part that requires complevel 9. You could do the same thing in complevel 2 by having the walkover lockeddoor linedefs in the same place as the blue keys, but nothing would happen if you fell straight down.)
- Have the linedef trigger a crusher over a voodoo doll when the the player has the blue key.

The downside is that you lose one key, but in complevel 9 you get six unique keys, so unless your standalone map is extremely big, this shouldn't be a problem.

You could also use dehacked to make megaspheres give you zero health, blanket the floor with them instead, and make the floor damaging. Although with this trick, the player might wonder why their armour was set to 200 at the moment they died.

Great thinking, GoS!

Do we have to call you Patchouli Knowledge from now on, judging from your avatar? (NO, it's a joke. :P)

[Phml]

- Have a voodoo doll that is constantly passing over a walkover locked door linedef, that requires a blue skull key. (This is the part that requires complevel 9. You could do the same thing in complevel 2 by having the walkover lockeddoor linedefs in the same place as the blue keys, but nothing would happen if you fell straight down.)

Wow. That just blew my mind.

[dmdr]

Yeah I thought of that (the telefrag thing) but I wanted the player to die in the pit, not somewhere else, which can be a bit jarring. Besides, with the crusher I can time it so the player is killed more or less when they hit the floor.
Conveyer belts make this stuff a lot easier, but I said I'd vanillafy the map, not Boomify it.

The other trick is awesome though, thanks!

Actually now this thread is about rad editing tricks, isn't there a method of making floors move instantly in vanilla? There's an annoying visual glitch at the first Hell Knight fight that I'd like to fix without resorting to generalised linedefs.

[arttu98]

Wow, 3D floors and stuff. Pretty epic.

[NiTROACTiVE]

This map was very cool! Besides the mass difficulty, I still thought the map had a great design.