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CaptainAhab

Totally new to Doom!

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Hello Doomworld community!

I'm interested in playing both Doom and Doom 2 for the single player but, more importantly, for the multiplayer.

1. Is it still relatively active in NA?
2. What games specifically do I need to buy off of Steam? I see multiple older Doom games on there. The Ultimate Doom and Doom 2?
3. Once I have purchased the games, which program should I use to play multiplayer? Zdaemon, Skulltag, or both?

Thanks, and cheers! :)

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Welcome to Doomworld, my good man! To answer your questions (anyone else, please feel free to fill me in):

1. Yes.
2. Any will do, but if you can afford it, get both. Don't forget Final Doom (TNT Evilution and Plutonia).
3. Most people now prefer Odamex for old-school multiplayer.

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For single player, I highly recommend Ultimate Doom's first three episodes as the best of the IWADs, for multiplayer and custom WADs, Doom 2 is pretty much a necessity. Final Doom is alright and you'll need it if you plan to play the fan-made sequels to Plutonia.

Also as far as multiplayer ports go, I recommend using either Skulltag or Odamex, but you might as well grab and use both.

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Thank you so much for the replies thus far! :D

Oxamex, I will need to research this further! It says on the website that there is a Windows package, but it doesn't list Windows 7. Will this mean that if I am running Windows 7, I will be unable to play it? :(

0.6 looks amazing! :O

More opinions are always welcomed. Thanks again.

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Odamex will run on Windows 7 without problems. As a rule of thumb, anything that will run on Vista without problems will also rule on 7 without problems, since it's practically the same system. (Just with the SP1 already applied and a better reputation.)

While you're grabbing the old games off Steam, you might also want to get Heretic, Hexen, and Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel; in addition to the Doom games. If you use Skulltag, you'll see it can play them too! They are not as popular on multiplayer servers, but you'll still see them appear from time to time. You might also want to grab some of the free games available that will run on the same engine.

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Yes Odamex runs just fine on Windows 7. I use Windows 7 64-bit myself.

For Odamex, I recommend you grab the 0.5.6.2u package I released here:

http://odamex.net/boards/index.php/topic,1585.msg3542.html#new

This package comes with the full Odamex install with a few extra features ripped from the upcoming 0.6 release. The package also includes the browser DOOMSEEKER, which can see Odamex servers, grab necessary patch wads, and will connect you to the #odamex IRC room.

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To expand on the "Doom 2 is a necessity" thing; almost every custom level set out there these days uses Doom 2 as a base, and Doom 2 is the most often played version of Doom in multiplayer. Opinions about basic Doom 2 may very, but it is essential for playing almost any custom level set or mod made in the past 12 or so years.

Final Doom isn't essential, but it does have a level set, The Plutonia Experiment, which is a good intro for the difficulty most of the harder custom level sets have these days. Grab it when you've completed basic Doom 2, but aren't sure if you can handle some of the harder custom level sets yet. It also has another one, TNT Evilution, which is good for a quick run with a custom level set.

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I personally recommend Skulltag for online play if you're not looking to play too competively. Skulltag supports up to 32 players and bots, so it's my own number one choice for multiplayer :>

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BloodyAcid said:

I personally recommend Skulltag for online play if you're not looking to play too competively. Skulltag supports up to 32 players and bots, so it's my own number one choice for multiplayer :>


But it has several additions that make it more Quake 3-like. If you just want vanilla Doom 2 DM, go with Odamex.

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Welcome to Doomworld Forums! We hope you have a grea time here, it's a really cool place for Doom fans to hang out.

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Thank you all! :D Never expected such welcoming and helpful responses!

Is it true that Zdaemon and Skulltag are far more popular than Odamex? I won't be diving into multiplayer until I've gone through most -- if not all -- of the single player portions of The Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 (I'm debating just picking up the complete doom pack off of Steam anyway), but do you think this will change with Odamex 0.6?

I'm just curious why I should choose the least popular Doom multiplayer client over the ones that are most popular. I am looking for a competitive, vanilla Doom multiplayer experience. Odamex 0.6 looks really promising, but why choose that over, say, Zdaemon, if Zdaemon is the most popular one right now?

Thanks in advance. You guys are awesome. :)

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CaptainAhab said:

Thank you all! :D Never expected such welcoming and helpful responses!

Is it true that Zdaemon and Skulltag are far more popular than Odamex? I won't be diving into multiplayer until I've gone through most -- if not all -- of the single player portions of The Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 (I'm debating just picking up the complete doom pack off of Steam anyway), but do you think this will change with Odamex 0.6?

I'm just curious why I should choose the least popular Doom multiplayer client over the ones that are most popular. I am looking for a competitive, vanilla Doom multiplayer experience. Odamex 0.6 looks really promising, but why choose that over, say, Zdaemon, if Zdaemon is the most popular one right now?

Thanks in advance. You guys are awesome. :)


Actually, single player and multiplayer are quite different. Play SP for a bit to get a hand for how certain weapons (especially the Double Barrel Shotgun) work, then hop in. If you want to practice in an MP environment, use Skulltag and play levels like Doom 2 MAP01. Those levels have only vanilla weapons, so you can get used to things like hitting and running with the Double Barrel Shotgun.

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The reason the people are in favor for Odamex around here is because the other two kinda have a "bad reputation," if you will.

Skulltag is based on ZDoom 2, which can do a LOT of amazing stuff at the expense of losing its "classic Doom feel." Skulltag takes it even further by implementing a lot of newer features that make it "feel" more like Quake than Doom. As a result of this, there is no standard amongst the community as to how servers should be played and its generally agreed that competitive Doomers find it more frustrating to play Skulltag because a lot of weird quirks that happen in the port just seem like they are not normal for a serious Doom port. Also the competitive community on Skulltag is kind of a joke. Skulltag is fun for non-serious Doomer mods though! Team Last Man Standing and Hide and Seek are a blast! :)

ZDaemon I would say is a great choice, except that most of the serious competitive Doomers are banned from it due to conflicts with the administration team.

Odamex is the port that is supposed to be the "Open Source ZDaemon alternative that does not have bat-shit crazy administration" of the ports. A lot of the competitive community is ready to jump ship from ZDaemon to Odamex to resurrect the competitive Doom scene. Doomworld also tends to like Odamex because it manages to blend newschool features into an engine that still feels like the classic Doom we all know and love.

Its probably risky saying this but Odamex is probably the serious Doomworlder's port of choice for multiplayer Doom because of the fact that its open source and feels like classic Doom.

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Good job, everyone! ;)

Vulture said:

The reason the people are in favor for Odamex around here is because the other two kinda have a "bad reputation," if you will.

Skulltag was a good port before, when it was hosted at Doomworld. I still like Skulltag, but I can understand why it's not for everyone. :|

Skulltag is based on ZDoom

It was based on ZDoom, before the team started using GZDoom IIRC.

Skulltag takes it even further by implementing a lot of newer features that make it "feel" more like Quake than Doom.

You mean Quake 3 Arena, heh. :P

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As far as ZDaemon goes, I only don't recommend it because it's not open source (I used to not recommend Skulltag either, but they've seen the light), but by no means does that mean you shouldn't use it if you really want to.

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CaptainAhab said:

Is it true that Zdaemon and Skulltag are far more popular than Odamex? I won't be diving into multiplayer until I've gone through most -- if not all -- of the single player portions of The Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 (I'm debating just picking up the complete doom pack off of Steam anyway), but do you think this will change with Odamex 0.6?

I'm just curious why I should choose the least popular Doom multiplayer client over the ones that are most popular. I am looking for a competitive, vanilla Doom multiplayer experience. Odamex 0.6 looks really promising, but why choose that over, say, Zdaemon, if Zdaemon is the most popular one right now?


To be frank, all three multiplayer ports have issues.

Skulltag

The problem with Skulltag is that most people playing Skulltag aren't actually playing Doom, they're playing one of the countless modifications of it that completely change the gameplay. That's not necessarily a bad thing...I think that total conversions like Mega Man 8 bit Deathmatch are pretty fun once in a while, but it's just not Doom, and sometimes it's a little discouraging to see upwards of 50 people online but the only people playing Doom are a few guys in a Duel server and about a dozen people in a passworded CTF server you can't join..

Now, there are a bunch of players who say that Skulltag, even when playing Doom "isn't doom" and they're 100% correct. However, it is a pretty close approximation, and there is still people who play it seriously...it's just that people play the other two ports more seriously, and the skill level is higher elsewhere.

ZDaemon

ZDaemon is actually a pretty serviceable port, and unlike Odamex it currently has people playing it 24/7. The problem is that the current competitive scene inside ZDaemon has dwindled down in past years, primarily caused by an administration with a vendetta against a few players that they don't like. The pinacle of competition in online Doom is considered to be the International Doom League, and it uses ZDaemon as its port of choice, but because of numerous problems with the ZDaemon administration it runs on non-advertised servers that don't use the ZDaemon master banlist. That is pretty damn dysfunctional if you ask me, especially for a league that has run for 11 seasons.

It's kind of a tricky subject, though, because the ZDaemon administration is actually capable of being quite nice if you're not on their shit list. And if you don't run afoul of their presumed higher moral authority, you're probably safe on a ZDaemon server.

Odamex

Odamex was a project started by people who like ZDaemon but didn't want the ZDaemon administration's baggage. The reason it has a smaller player-base is because for a few years it was considered to be quite buggy, and although I consider Odamex 0.5.6 quite playable you still run into the occasional weird behavior. It also has a few important features missing, like player voting. The fact that players aren't on 24/7 doesn't mean it's dead, however, as there are people usually willing to play if they're aware that a game is going on. And Odamex does have a few features that other ports still don't have...like the ability to switch WADs so servers can be loaded up with thousands of maps at a time instead of being stuck with just one WAD (I run a FFA server with over 1,600 maps in rotation). And while ZDaemon feels a lot closer to Doom than Skulltag, Odamex is Doom, and can prove it by playing back 99% of demos that play in doom2.exe.

It has a bright future, and people do play it. But if you just want to double-click on a server with players already in it and start playing with them, it can be a little tricky right now. I suggest idling in #odamex if you want to get a game together.

tl;dr

So what is the answer to this little conundrum? Bloodshedder nailed it:

Bloodshedder said:

You don't have to choose. You can download and use all three of them.


To make things easy, just download everything I list here:

There is also an IRC channel where players from all three ports like to hang out called #altdeath on quakenet, you can visit it in an IRC client here or with webchat here.

Welcome to online Doom, CaptainAhab. Sorry for the mess, but I hope to see you in a server. :)

HavoX said:

It was based on ZDoom, before the team started using GZDoom IIRC.


Skulltag is ZDoom 2.1.7 with the GZDoom renderer from GZDoom SVN r127 hacked in and many new features and fixes from newer versions of ZDoom/GZDoom backported.

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My advice is to get your hands on everything you can and decide for yourself which game you like best, how you like to play, etc. Don't let these people tell you what you SHOULD like based on their opinion. Make up your own mind.

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CaptainAhab said:

(I'm debating just picking up the complete doom pack off of Steam anyway)

Go crazy and get the id Super Pack. :)

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If you're trying to save money, You might just want to get Doom 2. There are very few new wads you can download that are only for Doom 1. Doom 1 doesn't feature much that Doom 2 doesn't already have, so having Doom 1 won't really get you very far unless you're interested in scanning the entire internet to play all the doom 1 wads ever made like I am. (P.S. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are TONS of them, I have an external harddrive where I reaped all the downloadable doom levels on the internet I could find, I have over 16,000 WAD files!)

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40oz said:

If you're trying to save money, You might just want to get Doom 2. There are very few new wads you can download that are only for Doom 1. Doom 1 doesn't feature much that Doom 2 doesn't already have, so having Doom 1 won't really get you very far unless you're interested in scanning the entire internet to play all the doom 1 wads ever made like I am. (P.S. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are TONS of them, I have an external harddrive where I reaped all the downloadable doom levels on the internet I could find, I have over 16,000 WAD files!)

Don't listen to this beer bemused half-witted hack. You MUST play Doom 1 first! It is essential. After that, you may want to play Doom The Way id Did.

Cheers, and welcome to the greatest game of all time! You're in for a ride... :)

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Hellbent said:

beer bemused...


I LOL'ed at that choice of words.

On topic, how much money would you really save by not getting DOOM 1? I say probably not much. DOOM 1 is well worth the few bucks you'll spend on it IMO. Also, I think it's important to play both 32-level wads in Final DOOM as well. How certain people got to be super moderators on a DOOM forum without at least playing all the way through DOOM 2 and Final DOOM is beyond me.

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well if he's really tight on money, getting only Doom 2 for now is not a bad idea -- it'll only be a few months before another big Steam sale where you can nab the full Doom pack for like $10.

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Welcome to the world of doom. You can't go wrong with ZDaemon and Skulltag! Awesomely tailored for multiplayer, and both very different from each other.

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40oz said:

If you're trying to save money, You might just want to get Doom 2. There are very few new wads you can download that are only for Doom 1. Doom 1 doesn't feature much that Doom 2 doesn't already have, so having Doom 1 won't really get you very far unless you're interested in scanning the entire internet to play all the doom 1 wads ever made like I am. (P.S. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are TONS of them, I have an external harddrive where I reaped all the downloadable doom levels on the internet I could find, I have over 16,000 WAD files!)

I only have Doom 1 on my laptop, and most if not all my projects with a chance of getting progressed are for Doom 1. It must be the Doom 1 only artistic resources which are with an order of magnitude better than Doom 2's. Doom 2 only adds some easily imitable skies, some non-hellish songs and several brown textures, easy to make with Gimp or whatever. Meanwhile, Doom 1 has SKY2, SKY4, "Demons on the prey", "Sinister" and countless others I can't work without. Thanks to Tormentor667's reporitory, I'm not running short on Doom 2-like monsters either.

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All I'm saying is that Doom 2 totally outnumbers Doom 1 in volume of PWADs to download. If you want to play Doom and have tons of extra doom levels to play, you'd get more bang for your buck getting Doom 2 than you would Doom 1.

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printz said:

I only have Doom 1 on my laptop, and most if not all my projects with a chance of getting progressed are for Doom 1. It must be the Doom 1 only artistic resources which are with an order of magnitude better than Doom 2's. Doom 2 only adds some easily imitable skies, some non-hellish songs and several brown textures, easy to make with Gimp or whatever. Meanwhile, Doom 1 has SKY2, SKY4, "Demons on the prey", "Sinister" and countless others I can't work without. Thanks to Tormentor667's reporitory, I'm not running short on Doom 2-like monsters either.


Almost spilled my drink by the end of this post. Printz, printz, printz. Please never change. :)

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Mother of God.

So many helpful responses! Thank you all! :D

I can't wait to start playing Doom so I'm not going to wait for the summer sale. I'll give it a week or two then purchase the complete Doom set off of Steam (I figure it'll be cheaper than buying all of the stuff pre-Doom 3 separately, anyway).

By that time Odamex 0.6 will (hopefully) be near release, and I can use my newly-downloaded mIRC client to see what's happening! :) If I have some spare cash in the near future I can try to get some of my friends into it too and see where that goes. ;)

Again, thank you all, you have been very helpful. Have a wonderful day. :D

Though, I have another newbie question... I saw in the 0.6 Odamex preview -- which I have seen about five times now -- that someone was rocket jumping. Unless I'm mistaken (I probably am), aren't you unable to look on a y-axis in Doom? Aren't you just able to use the x-axis for looking around?

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Looking up and down has been added to the Doom engine by Heretic.

Among many other ports, ZDoom got free look early on in its existence. Odamex is derived from csDoom which is derived from ZDoom, so it has free look.

It might not have had kept it if its competitors ZDaemon and Skulltag didn't also have free look. For many, it is a necessity in online play (be it for more precise aiming or for rocket jumping), so Odamex follows suit.

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