Guest Posted March 22, 2012 Wagi said:More attention to deathmatch, which ... was clearly an afterthought. Heh. Another first for Doom. The game apparently pioneered the 'Deathmatch added as an afterthought' which has been the way in too many games since. At least Doom's single player never became the even worse 'Just Deathmatch with bots'. 0 Share this post Link to post
Naitguolf Posted March 22, 2012 To me DooM is just perfect as is. But if i needed something else, i think Duke Nukem 3D added it: Flying, great cities levels, fun weapons and a great level of interactiviy, but with focuss on business: kill things. 0 Share this post Link to post
qoncept Posted March 22, 2012 Naitguolf said:To me DooM is just perfect as is. But if i needed something else, i think Duke Nukem 3D added it: Flying, great cities levels, fun weapons and a great level of interactiviy, but with focuss on business: kill things. For as simple as it was I absolutely loved 2 player DM on Duke's football field. 0 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted March 22, 2012 Ok, sure this game is awesome and one of the thing that most conditioned my life from i was 12 and i played it the shareware from first time until today, and always founding it impressive, but this game needs more Miku. Oh, and that stuff from alpha versions and the original BFG shoot concept... 0 Share this post Link to post
Jodwin Posted March 22, 2012 walter confalonieri said:but this game needs more Miku. That is one of those otaku fads that has gotten way too large. Along with Super Sonico. 0 Share this post Link to post
Brewtal_Legend Posted March 23, 2012 Ubik said:-A grenade launcher. -A railgun, or powerful rifle-style weapon. -Tripmines/landmines - some more tactically varied weapons. I don't think any games around at the time had any of these. I never saw a grenade launcher until Quake. Had no clue what a rail gun was until I played skulltag for the first time. The pipe bombs from Duke Nukem were kinda close to a land/tripmine I suppose. Did anyone know what a railgun was or heard of it around the time doom came out? 0 Share this post Link to post
Technician Posted March 23, 2012 I never heard of a railgun until Quake 2. I've never witnessed a railgun as efficient and natural feeling as Quake 3's. None. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jan Posted March 24, 2012 For me Doom was mostly missing more great levels. When I first played the shareware episode, it blew my mind. Then, many months later, when I played through the full version of the game and through Doom 2, I remember feeling quite disappointed with most of the levels. They felt uninspired and lacked that immersive quality of Romero's E1. 0 Share this post Link to post
b0rsuk Posted March 24, 2012 Baron of Hell vs Hell Knight - it sounds cheap at first, but remember that even back then Barons were considered mostly harmless bullet sponges. I remember reading an interview or something mentioning that they introduced Knights as the less boring version. They deal just as much damage but don't require as much time to take down. If you're still not convinced, Heretic has so many monster variations and most of them don't even look different ! Come on, even DooM diehards and fans should admit not everything in DooM was perfect: * The bosses except glorious and frighteningly powerful Cyberdemon were uninspired at best. Spider Mastermind in particular is a letdown as a final boss. * Super Shotgun not so much adds to the game as replaces the ordinary one. You have to bend over backwards to find a reason to use Shotgun, when SSG deals 3x damage for only 2x ammo. * melee monsters are infamous for being pathetic. I can't think of a game where melee monsters were more of a joke. Demons simply can't deal damage to an alert and sober player in vast majority of cases. Almost all exceptions are workarounds like placing demons in groups or placing them in confined spaces. Lost Souls aren't much better. * melee weapons are very hard to use mostly because they're buggy. Fist is hard to hit with even if you touch the monster. Arachnotrons, Mancubi would make great chainsaw targets if it wasn't for the cross-section and blockmap bugs. * Infinitely tall monsters. There's an imp somewhere below, and None Shall Pass. It often turns into a guessing game when you try to find a way down. * Partial Invisibility is just harmful unless there are only hitscan monsters around. It could've been changed to be useful for everyone with some creativity. Make it so monsters shoot at the spot you were 0.5 second ago. That's a lot of time in DooM. -------------- As for things that DooM genuinely lacked, in my opinion: Grenade launcher. Not to bounce behind corners, but to hit stuff in various pits. Interesting flying monsters. There are only cacodemons, which are limited by their huge size, and skulls. Gargoyles in Heretic are an excellent counterexample. They work just about anywhere and are fun to fight. 2 more flyers with unique mechanics would be great. At least a token way to have path over path. Flying magical bridges like in Hexen would be okay, they would even fit in the Hell episodes and some monsters appear to use magic anyway. I disagree about landmines. Would slow the game down, and would enable grind (place mine, lure monster, place mine, lure monster, place mine... not very fun). 0 Share this post Link to post
qoncept Posted March 26, 2012 I don't really think infinitely tall monsters were much of an issue. Depending on the performance hit it doesn't impact the game enough to bother with. I haven't looked at the code but I guess it would probably just be one extra coordinate check which shouldn't impact performance much. I can only think of a handful of times it would have had any impact, though. And the WTF feeling I get when I land on top of another player or monster in Skulltag leads me to believe it's not much better. I also don't think grenade launchers would add much to the game. Dropping them in to pits would be nice but again, it situation doesn't come up enough to miss them. Agreed on landmines. The trip mines and pipe bombs in Duke3d were entertaining but not really useful. And I don't think any sort of bridge at the time was practical. They must have at least considered it and decided against trying to implement. Dealing with the contraints of the period they obviously did an awful lot. If these things were practical and fun they probably would have been done. 0 Share this post Link to post
Maes Posted March 26, 2012 b0rsuk said:* Super Shotgun not so much adds to the game as replaces the ordinary one. You have to bend over backwards to find a reason to use Shotgun, when SSG deals 3x damage for only 2x ammo. How very dare you Daemon lover desecrating the holy Shotgun! 0 Share this post Link to post
Reisal Posted March 27, 2012 A better array of blues and purples in the palette. 0 Share this post Link to post
Snakes Posted March 27, 2012 One thing I would have preferred is the presence of more hellish rock/stone textures. What's there works decently, but dark and orange rocks would have blended really well with lava and blood liquids and made for an even more foreboding atmosphere. 0 Share this post Link to post
peach freak Posted March 28, 2012 Took me a while to find something, but I wish you could put in non-hardcoded events, like "Kill all of these monsters to open this door". From a map editing standpoint, there were several instances in which I wished Doom had this. Hard to use the hardcoded events when they're only in a select few levels (E1M8, E2M8, E3M8, E4M6, E4M8, Map07 of any Doom II-based game). 0 Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted March 28, 2012 Source ports with scripting capabilities allow for exactly that (and a whole lot more, of course) 0 Share this post Link to post
Snakes Posted March 28, 2012 Or DeHacked, for that matter. You can use that to create all sorts of craziness without even switching source ports. 0 Share this post Link to post
qoncept Posted March 28, 2012 peach freak said:Hard to use the hardcoded events when they're only in a select few levels (E1M8, E2M8, E3M8, E4M6, E4M8, Map07 of any Doom II-based game). What happens in E4M8? 0 Share this post Link to post
peach freak Posted March 28, 2012 That pillar in the middle of the Spider Mastermind room lowers all the way to the floor (Tag 666) when the Spider Mastermind is killed. 0 Share this post Link to post
qoncept Posted March 28, 2012 peach freak said:That pillar in the middle of the Spider Mastermind room lowers all the way to the floor (Tag 666) when the Spider Mastermind is killed. Doh.. I meant e4m6. All the final levels I get. :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted March 28, 2012 Snakes said:Or DeHacked, for that matter. You can use that to create all sorts of craziness without even switching source ports. Not sure it can change the map that the monster death specials work on though. 0 Share this post Link to post
Phml Posted March 28, 2012 You can do that with the Keen death pointer, of course that limits it to one particular kind of monster for the entire wad. 0 Share this post Link to post
peach freak Posted March 28, 2012 qoncept said:Doh.. I meant e4m6. All the final levels I get. :) After killing the Cyberdemon, the bars behind the Cyberdemon open like a fast door (they are tagged 666). So essentially, any door tagged as 666 in an E4M6 level will open like a fast door when all Cyberdemons are killed. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted March 28, 2012 qoncept said:Doh.. I meant e4m6. All the final levels I get. :) By the way: this answers all questions. 0 Share this post Link to post