Why isn't there a devil in Doom?

[Krispy]

Why not? It's hellishly themed and basically has everything but the devil. Is there at least a devil sprite somewhere?

[Dr. Durr]

Have you played Doom II MAP30?

[Scypek2]

Yeah. And imps should be armed with pitchforks.

[Alfonzo]

"Forever teetering on the brink of victory." That's the unfortunate yet admittedly rather lucrative circumstance which Doomguy finds himself in time and time again. Reveal then slay the devil and you kill more than just a mean-spirited SOB with an attitude. You kill the hunt, the source, and the mystery. And Doomguy, too, seeing as he's basically become a man of unmitigated violence totally unfit for society.

The Icon of Sin for me is terrifying because it's just an icon. Or at least that's how I think it. A constructed representation of a higher power through which bad things happen. Of course, it could really just be the devil him/itself, withered to the point at which it requires life support. ...Either way, it presents us with a half-image. A glimpse of an unfathomable evil.

Best keep it that way, I reckon.

[Kira]

If Quake III Arena background was canonical to Doom, I'd say the devil is Vadrigar. The hellish invasion would only be his vision of a contest where survivors are eligible to the Arena (therefore able to kill and be killed eternally).

[printz]

Krispy said:

Why not? It's hellishly themed and basically has everything but the devil. Is there at least a devil sprite somewhere?

What?? Imps and Demons are typical devils.

[PRIMEVAL]

No john you are the devils

[Gez]

K!r4 said:

If Quake III Arena background was canonical to Doom, I'd say the devil is Vadrigar. The hellish invasion would only be his vision of a contest where survivors are eligible to the Arena (therefore able to kill and be killed eternally).

Isn't it the Vadrigar, as in, a whole race of them?

[Captain Toenail]

In the original PC version of Quake 3 in the manual the Vadrigar is the title of an entire race. In the Playstation 2 port of the game the Vadrigar is actually present as a single character and final boss. He has the announcer's voice and resembles Klesk, but larger with angel wings.

[printz]

There is a Doom 2 v1.666 mod where the Arch-Vile is replaced by LUCIFER, who looks the same, has twice the hitpoints, can fly, teleport, crash Doom and die in a fire. I'm really looking for that mod.

[Captain Toenail]

By the way if you want to fight the devil then play Dante's Inferno. He even has a giant wang complete with rag-doll physics.

[Krispy]

Captain Toenail said:

By the way if you want to fight the devil then play Dante's Inferno. He even has a giant wang complete with rag-doll physics.

Oh good that's just what I'm looking for!

[Marnetmar]

I think putting a physical devil in Doom would ruin the sense of mystery of what's truly planning out the demonic invasions. I did hear someone mention before that Lucifer could work in Heretic/Hexen though, and I do partially agree with that...But just how does one depict the devil himself?

[Krispy]

Marnetmar said:

But just how does one depict the devil himself?

A big red man with a mustache, triangle beard, tail, and pitchfork- duh.

[Nomad]

I would picture something like this:

http://www.faktoider.nu/img/satan.jpg

Surely wouldn't be too hard to make something like that in Doom.

[Maes]

Well duh his face is literally plastered all over the place

[Krispy]

Speaking of which, what the heck is this guy anyway?

[Marnetmar]

I believe it's the arch-vile. I assume Sandy came up with the arch-vile concept before Doom 1 was released, but it didn't appear until Doom 2.

[chungy]

Marnetmar said:

But just how does one depict the devil himself?

Maybe something like this:

[45th Parrallel]

chungy said:

Maybe something like this:
Image of Hitler

Is that Hitler with down syndrome?

[DoomUK]

To be honest I never gave this much thought. I never thought it was necessary to have a devil as a monster. And I always thought this was supposed to be a baron or hell knight. If there's a devil in Doom then it's a purely spiritual entity that's represented by the demons, but never makes a physical appearance.

sgt dopey said:

Is that Hitler with down syndrome?

Haven't you watched Inglorious Basterds?

[Technician]

DoomUK said:

Haven't you watched Inglorious Basterds?

Ah, so a director with down syndrome.

[Jodwin]

I thought it would be a cool concept if Hell in Doom was split between "natural" devils (imps, barons, demons and arch-viles) versus cybernetic demons (zombies, mancs, spiders). That would make for a nice RTS setting.

[Phobus]

Imp, Lost Soul, Demon, Spectre, Cacodemon, Hell Knight, Pain Elemental, Baron of Hell and Arch-Vile

vs

Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Heavy Weapons Dude, Revenant, Arachnotron, Mancubus, Spiderdemon Mastermind and Cyberdemon


Honestly? I don't like the "Natural" teams chances, even with both of the monster-count boosting monsters on their side.

[Udderdude]

Doom's subversion of classical depictions of Hell-ish minions (Imps, Demons, Satan) is one of the cooler things about it. There's no need for an enemy or boss who has a pitckfork and a red tail, etc. It would actually cheapen the experience because 1. It's cliched and 2. You'd be kind of expecting it, so there's no surprise.

One could argue the Icon of Sin was actually inspired by Baphomet, although I'm sure this has been pointed out before.

[printz]

Jodwin said:

I thought it would be a cool concept if Hell in Doom was split between "natural" devils (imps, barons, demons and arch-viles) versus cybernetic demons (zombies, mancs, spiders). That would make for a nice RTS setting.

I'd rather have humans versus devils in a RTS setting :P

[Maes]

Phobus said:

Honestly? I don't like the "Natural" teams chances, even with both of the monster-count boosting monsters on their side.

Zerging, micromanagement and early game domination ;-)

That is, if the game's designers know the first thing about "gameplay balance". Make the "natural" faction have lots of cheap, rapidly produced units (or even free summons), while the "tech" faction would only have low-level monsters such as humans being produced reasonably cheap, while all others would require much more time and resources and be more effective in a late-game scenario.

Perhaps Zombies could play for both sides, as there's really nothing "cybernetic" about them other than their retained knowledge of how to use their earthly weapons.

Both sides could also have access to an "Icon of Sin" mook generator, of course with limits on the rate of generation and the kind and level of monsters generated.

The Archvile, with its ability to resurrect dead monsters (or, alternatively, healing them) from BOTH sides and have them join-up its own side, would also even things up and lead to interesting micromanagement strategies.

[Jodwin]

printz said:

I'd rather have humans versus devils in a RTS setting :P

Of course humans could be a third side, too. :P


@Phobus: You're making the mistake of taking Doom's balance directly as is into a completely different game. There's no reason why all the monsters should have exactly the same stats, and neither is there a reason why there couldn't be new units (like a cyberdemon-like titan unit for the other side as well).

[Grain of Salt]

[kristus]

st.alfonzo said:

The Icon of Sin for me is terrifying because it's just an icon. Or at least that's how I think it. A constructed representation of a higher power through which bad things happen. Of course, it could really just be the devil him/itself, withered to the point at which it requires life support. ...Either way, it presents us with a half-image. A glimpse of an unfathomable evil.

Best keep it that way, I reckon.

I dunno. The icon is obviously based off of Baphometh, an actual icon of sin in recent centuries. Makes me think they just meant that this heirarchal top dog demon is the de facto icon of sin.