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scalliano

Threshold Of Pain II - ACT 2 RELEASED

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Haven't heard from GooberMan in a while, presumably he's busy working on QB at the moment. Was planning on shooting him a PM in the next week or so. Still working on my own maps in the meantime, though.

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I've been really impressed by the first map, specially the unusual pistol-less zombie start and then a gradual and well paced weapon progression. The design + visuals looked awesome and (indeed) more varied than in ToP 1 (which I liked a lot, anyway), and gameplay also flows in the same vein as in ToP 1 and keeps being entertaining all the time. I liked that there was already a couple of surprises, mostly involving the "nightmare" enemies. Congrats! I'm hyped to play through the rest soon! :)

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That level after the secret level - there's a dormant (unkillable) hellknight that won't wake up, and it seems that it's important to kill it in order to progress. I'm using g2.1.pre-236-ga7f4185 (Jesus Christ, what happened to the normal revision numbers).

Also, the graphic for the artifact found in the secret level is misaligned on the classic HUD.

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Yeah, forgot to assign the tags to those. Thought I'd tested it in HMP already. I'll update the download.

Also, well done on finding the secret level. I honestly thought I'd made the secret exit sufficiently cryptic.

EDIT: Download updated. Should be working now. Not sure what to do about the artefact on the HUD, though.

EDIT EDIT: Artefact has been fixed. Applies to the Special Edition of ToP1 as well.

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In MAP02, I've been able to strafejump to the red key from a high ledge nearby, before I've raised the bridge. I was under an impression that it was the intended way to get there, but I was eventually condemned to death due to being low on health and (obviously) having no radsuit.

Otherwise I thought the map was awesome in everything: aesthetics, gameplay setups, progression, ammo balance, and unexpected introductions to pretty cool new thingies. I was never keen on those totally-invisible nightmare imps, but thankfully you know how to use them to minimize their annoyingness. Great experience so far.


EDIT: Also, I've just noticed the hilarious exit messages! :)

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Duly noted, I'll address the red key issue for the final release.

As for the Nimps, they were initially never intended to be as "stealthy" as they turned out - the released maps were completed long before they could be rendered properly in GZDoom and they ended up being near invisible in the mod's low light levels. That said, now that I know how they look ingame, I'm able to take that into account when finishing off the rest of the maps, making them an irritation rather than a gamebreaker.

And yeah, couldn't resist some menu abuse :P

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scalliano said:

As for the Nimps, they were initially never intended to be as "stealthy" as they turned out - the released maps were completed long before they could be rendered properly in GZDoom and they ended up being near invisible in the mod's low light levels. That said, now that I know how they look ingame, I'm able to take that into account when finishing off the rest of the maps, making them an irritation rather than a gamebreaker.

Do you even know what I'm talking about? I'm not talking about standard Nimps who are hard to be seen in low light levels. I'm talking about those completely-invisible ones in this room (one of them just shot me in my face, and if you look closely, you can see his blue blood splat above my pistol, right below the electricity symbol on the panel behind). They're never visible at all. Now don't tell me that it wasn't intentional. Invisible Nimps appeared in ToP 1 too, and on multiple places (always when warping in a room via the fade-in method). It'd be funny if it turned out that it wasn't an intentional gimmick.

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MAP03 - Lots of total awesomeness again! I liked how the map featured tactical usage of many of your custom enemies, which forced me (the player) to find out strategies to deal with them. Nothing too difficult, though, which is alright.

There were a few more invisible Nightmare imps in the red key room. You should be also aware that those 3D-midtexture-based fences have one downside: Projectiles cannot pass through them. This got too obvious after I've grabbed the blue key, left the room and then I've seen a couple of Nightmare cacodemons emerging from distance. There was a 3D-midtexture fence between us, and they were slightly below my Z position, so that their projectiles couldn't hurt me (bumped into the fence), while I could easily take the cacodemons down with my hitscan weapons (hitscans passed through). I know that this behaviour cannot be fixed or worked around at all, and I didn't really mind it, I'm mentioning it just to make sure you're aware.

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I could've sworn these imps bled subtractive blood:
http://i.imgur.com/snF6ha6.png

The blood stains on these dudes are flickering (not present on all frames):
http://i.imgur.com/xFVVonG.png

Some weird lighting artifacts here:
http://i.imgur.com/Mbgl79W.png

Some sort of invisible obstacle:
http://i.imgur.com/OWq9OpV.png

Lighting again:
http://i.imgur.com/4gF8PBM.png
http://i.imgur.com/lisIEwY.png

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scifista42 said:

Do you even know what I'm talking about? I'm not talking about standard Nimps who are hard to be seen in low light levels. I'm talking about those completely-invisible ones in this room (one of them just shot me in my face, and if you look closely, you can see his blue blood splat above my pistol, right below the electricity symbol on the panel behind). They're never visible at all. Now don't tell me that it wasn't intentional. Invisible Nimps appeared in ToP 1 too, and on multiple places (always when warping in a room via the fade-in method). It'd be funny if it turned out that it wasn't an intentional gimmick.


Not intentional at all. I haven't been able to replicate this issue as yet, those imps are supposed to fade in, D64 style. What version of GZDoom are you using?

As for the midtextures, I'm fully aware of the limitation, hence the hitscanners in the crate room. who can fire through them.

Da Werecat said:

I could've sworn these imps bled subtractive blood:
http://i.imgur.com/snF6ha6.png

The blood stains on these dudes are flickering (not present on all frames):
http://i.imgur.com/xFVVonG.png

Some weird lighting artifacts here:
http://i.imgur.com/Mbgl79W.png

Some sort of invisible obstacle:
http://i.imgur.com/OWq9OpV.png

Lighting again:
http://i.imgur.com/4gF8PBM.png
http://i.imgur.com/lisIEwY.png


Ah, it would appear that I didn't update the Hazmat Guy with the fixed frames - I'll get on that.

Not sure about the blood splats, none of the regular Imps are modified. I'll check that out.

EDIT: Turns out that I'd forgottent to update the fade-in script to take account of the subtractive blending - fixed.

I'm actually aware of those lighting bugs in the lava, but for whatever reason they're not showing up in GZDoom Builder. Not sure what the issue is there.

The invisible blockage is the dreaded "forgetting to assign the thing tags" again. Cheers for that and all of the other bugposts - I'll post a fix later on.

EDIT: New version with fixes for everything bar the invisible Nimps now online. Any more feedback is greatly appreciated.

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scalliano said:

Not intentional at all. I haven't been able to replicate this issue as yet, those imps are supposed to fade in, D64 style. What version of GZDoom are you using?

GZDoom "G1.9pre-639-ge84dc99", a development build which I've downloaded roughly 7 months ago.

EDIT: Turns out that I'd forgottent to update the fade-in script to take account of the subtractive blending - fixed.

Are you talking about the issue of invisible Nimps here? If so, why:

EDIT: New version with fixes for everything bar the invisible Nimps now online.

?

As I said, so far I've encountered invisible Nimps on 2 places in ToP2, and about 3 or 4 places in ToP1 Special Edition.

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MAP04: I've enjoyed walking the nice-looking unified-yet-varied environment and seeing varied monster cast, and exploring secrets. Very well done. There were invisible Nightmare imps in the yellow key room. On the other hand, some Nightmare imps warped in somewhere close to the exit, and they weren't invisible this time!

Spoiler

Once another time, you've proven that those SSG dudes can be really well used tactically, without being too unfair at all. I liked the computer screen quest, I've eventually completed it and got to the secret exit! I liked those zombies dropping keys, too. :)

EDIT:
Spoiler

And I've just finished the secret level MAP13 too. Very good experience as well. My favourite things were the blue key placement and the final build-up scene on the bridge. The core fight in the end could use some small support flying enemies that would chase the player behind those pillars, or something other, so that he couldn't safely camp there as long as he wanted to. Also, I like how the "story" of this wad gradually unveils.

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Cheers for the feedback. Regarding the bug that Werecat posted, I was referring to the two Nimps that looked like regular Imps in the red key room on MAP04. As for the completely invisible Nimps, I haven't come across that problem - they are spawning as they should at this end. I'll check that build out and see if I can recreate it.

Is anyone else having the problem with invisible enemies?

EDIT: Looks like it's that particular build of GZDoom. Looking at the archive, it's dated the 20th May 2014, which is a relief for me as the version I've been using isn't the newest, but it's newer: "G1.9pre-754-g09ae52e" dated 31st July 2014.

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Noticed you're using the older version of the Hectebus; the one with the duplicated sprites - HECTA2A8 is the same as HECTA3A7. That was fixed and converted to png format at Realm667 quite a while ago. Additional attack frames were also added to the graphics and the DECORATE. You might want to add this to your list of updates.

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scalliano said:

EDIT: Looks like it's that particular build of GZDoom. Looking at the archive, it's dated the 20th May 2014, which is a relief for me as the version I've been using isn't the newest, but it's newer: "G1.9pre-754-g09ae52e" dated 31st July 2014.

Yeah, I've just downloaded the newest GZDoom build from here and the Nimps appear properly now - problem solved. :)

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Some ramblings: Played the first couple of maps. Fun and atmospheric, like the original. Nice to see Final Doom's music being used as well. First map could be a bit love-hate with people with the fist based combat, but personally I think the way its done is fine. The scientists are quite intimidating when you don't have anything to shoot them with :)
When I first encountered the acid demon, I was caught slightly off-guard and got it right in the face :P The trites from Doom 3 were a nice surprise. Only found them once so far, and there wasn't like a million of them coming one at a time like in Doom 3 so thanks for not doing that. Also thought that nearby corridor with the flashing cyan (cyan! :D) lights was rather Doom 3 like, and that was a pretty cool introduction for the N-Spectres.
Transparent water was a nice touch, and one instance of it reminded me of the third level in Duke Nukem: Time to Kill, which is a plus.
SSG guys might be a bit overpowered, but I'll admit I'm not sure what my health was before they brought me down in 1-shot.

So yeah, I like what I played, still need to complete this release, and I look forward to the final release.

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MAP05: Great aesthetics and playability again, and I've recognized a couple of cool Doom 3 references. Whenever it started getting slightly boring, something new immediately came to my way, like the purple and white torches, even more intriguing usage of 3D bridges, or at least more SSG guys in yet another different combat scenario.

For a while, I couldn't find out how to get to the red key. It turned out that there was a switch in the YK room right behind the YK itself, but I've overlooked it because it was the key that attracted my attention. There was an exact same issue with one map in the Adventures of Square (which eventually got changed). I would recommend to move that switch to the other small yellow-locked room, the one with scientists and computers in the middle.

I've found a bug: This window is shootable through, as opposed to all other similarly looking windows in this wad. The room is located on the north from the western yellow doors.

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Good feedback as always. This is why I needed to release these maps - these are things I never would have spotted on my own. Since none of those are gamebreakers, I'll get on addressing them for the final release.

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Finished playing MAP06. Good experience in everything, like before. I liked how there was a teleporter between the 2 switches that served to make YK accessible, normally it would be yet another instance of 2-branch progression, after so many previous ones it was getting predictable and boring ("Uh, here is a crossroad, that means that I'll have to make my way through TWO MORE PATHS and only then progress."). I've enjoyed the D3 homages naturally built into your atmospheric environment. The new enemies were okay. Haven't found any bugs this time.

Overally I liked this mapset a lot and I'm looking forward to the complete version! :)

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I really like all the Doom 3 references in this! Level design also seems similar in many places, not just the ones that pay direct homage to specific scenes.

Also, I found the Chi gem in the secret level but I couldn't find the Unmaker anywhere in the WAD. Where is it?

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DooM_RO said:

Also, I found the Chi gem in the secret level but I couldn't find the Unmaker anywhere in the WAD. Where is it?

Maybe in the still unreleased E3?

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DooM_RO said:

Also, I found the Chi gem in the secret level but I couldn't find the Unmaker anywhere in the WAD. Where is it?


Presumably, in episode 3.

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I really enjoyed myself as I ventured through the atmospheric environments of the first two acts. The level design has only improved since the first installment, capitalizing further upon that 'Event Horizon' feel that really distinguished the PSX/64 ports from the others. Good enough for me to feel withdrawal symptoms upon beating it.

I was pleased in how involved finding the secret level was, and the climax at the end of said level made it totally worthy of the 'secret' title.

Besides the non-bulletproof window mentioned above, I didn't really witness any other bugs during game play.

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Oooh I love it.
Let it rise my friends, let it all open the gates.
Beat Bethesda, let the true spawn of DOOM rule forever more.

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