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MasterofJKD

About jumping....

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Well in my map that I've just finished today, the last part of the level the player has to jump from platform to platform, and the platforms are spaced far enough where I have a script lowering the gravity. It's all set in space so it makes sense but should I cut out the jumping part, cuz I know someone people like that classic doom feel, I'm mapping in zdoom, udmf format.

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No. That's a silly reason to remove/edit a part of your map.

It depends how well it fits into the rest of your map.

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People who really, really hate jumping in Doom are unlikely to be using ZDoom, so they wouldn't play your map even with that section removed.

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For all those vanilla ports out there that implement UDMF's ZDoom namespace...

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Reducing a map's features to meet a lowest common denominator will only result in a compromised product.

You can't satisfy everybody so the best advice is to make the map you want to make, not what others tell you to make.

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Thanks for the replies guys, I've decided to keep it, it adds to the fight a little at the end of the level, it fits, and I really like the effect anyways, definitely not gonna modify it any further to meet the needs of a few people.
But I might add a lift at the platform at the end to make the vanilla doom people happy, or as an alternative if a person gets frustrated with the low gravity jumping.

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The most important thing to remember is that catering to what other people want is a great way to suck the joy out of mapping. Sure, playtesting responses and general advice is good, but basing your entire map around what other people think BEFORE it even gets tested is just a bad idea.

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Gez said:

People who really, really hate jumping in Doom are unlikely to be using ZDoom, so they wouldn't play your map even with that section removed.

This. I play vanilla/Boom maps on PrBoom+/GlBoom+ exclusively so I don't see a problem with jumping when the wad is designed for ZDoom.

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IMO jumping is very awkward in doom, especially when you lower the gravity.

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MasterofJKD said:
But I might add a lift at the platform at the end to make the vanilla doom people happy, or as an alternative if a person gets frustrated with the low gravity jumping. [/B]


Something like this is a great idea. Provide an alternate route, hidden just out of the way, maybe even a secret. Maybe a slightly more difficult option.

If you specifiy in the textfile that jumping is allowed, then you get to keep your jumping section, provide an alternative for people who play without jumping, and expand a little on your current design. Everybody wins!

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Memfis said:

IMO jumping is very awkward in doom, especially when you lower the gravity.



You can increase the air control in ZDoom via MAPINFO if you want a low gravity jumping puzzle like that one secret map in Quake.

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Keep it. If you think it's fun, others probably will too. If someone has a problem with it, they don't have to play it, or they can just noclip their way through it. Part of the purpose of the enhanced ports is to give the game engine capabilities above and beyond the original, so it's pointless to stifle your own creativity to appease a few purists.

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I don't mind the idea of jumping in Doom but I don't really like the default way it works in ZDoom. It's got this sharp and quick up/down movement with no maneuverability, it feels like a "realistic" jump which feels out of the place with Doomguy's arcade-like movement speed. Also, could be something I'm doing wrong but it seems most of the time when I run and then jump I actually *lose* speed while I'm jumping.

In Skulltag, while it's still a bit off, it's somewhat better. What's the difference? Air control?

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As mentioned if you increase the air control it is a lot less frustrating for low-grav jump puzzles. There's no one saying you must keep ZDoom's default jump values when making a ZDoom wad, that is the beauty of it.

Why Skulltag's jumping feels better I have no idea. I know it has to modified by a dmflag to prevent getting a speed-boost by bunny hopping in CTF matches.

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Captain Toenail said:

Why Skulltag's jumping feels better I have no idea. I know it has to modified by a dmflag to prevent getting a speed-boost by bunny hopping in CTF matches.

Skulltag code said:

			if ( i_compatflags & COMPATF_LIMITED_AIRMOVEMENT )
			{
				movefactor = FixedMul (movefactor, level.aircontrol);
				bobfactor = FixedMul (bobfactor, level.aircontrol);
			}
			else
			{
				// Skulltag needs increased air movement for jump pads, etc.
				movefactor /= 4;
				bobfactor /= 4;
			}


ZDoom's default aircontrol value is the very slight 0.00390625. Note that vanilla Doom's aircontrol value is basically just 0 since you do not have friction at all while airborne. ZDoom made this change to let people jump on top of stuff without having to use running jumps. (You can compare with jumping in Eternity, where it's a lot harder because there you do need to make running jumps all the time. It's easy to test by trying to get back to the starting ledge in Doom II MAP01, or to jump from the courtyard to the computer room once it's opened up in Ultimate Doom E1M1.)

Skulltag completely ignores the aircontrol value provided, be it set in MAPINFO, with the sv_aircontrol CVAR, or through any other mean you can imagine, unless you set the "limited air movement" compat flag. Instead, it uses a value of 0.25.

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Gez said:

Skulltag completely ignores the aircontrol value provided, be it set in MAPINFO, with the sv_aircontrol CVAR, or through any other mean you can imagine, unless you set the "limited air movement" compat flag. Instead, it uses a value of 0.25.


Ugh...

Yet another case of utter Skulltag stupidity. Sometimes I wonder what kind of people made these decisions. Instead of using the proper way to define it in the MAPINFO for such maps they hard coded it into the engine. It's filled with gems like this one

It's a real shame that the current developer team is stuck with this mess of a code base...

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I might add air control, what's a good value for air control in map info to make jumping easier for the player, I know the original value is somewhere close to zero.

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