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Agentbromsnor

Shaderdesigner and other shader programs/ideas

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Me and a couple of other people are trying to 'pimp' up the Doom-engine some more, and today I got a link to a program called Shaderdesigner. While the new program worked fine with Homeworld 2 (another game we're modding), it didn't work for Doom.

Now, we tried adding shader-coding to the GZDoom engine before, but for some reason this never works. I suspect that it has something to do with the 2D-structure of Doom's rendering code, but I would like to know what you people think. I wonder if its at least plausible to work this kind of code into Doom's 2D structure.

Our goal is basically to make Doom into an acceptable and up to date game-engine, much like the Build-engine is now. I've grown a bit tired of Doom-episode style WAD's, so I want to experiment and see if we can push the Doom-engine into the right direction when it comes to shaders and other good stuff.

My thoughts are basically, that the GZDoom-engine is very much the most advanced version of the Doom engine out there, but still when I play a OpenGL-WAD it feels a bit disconnected, you know what I mean? I think the way you build levels in Doom is amazingly simple, and it allows the leveldesigner to put out very creative designs on the spot instead of fumbling around with the interface and all. So I think it would be nice to have Doom's familiar and easy to learn editing-functions, combined with a powerfull engine that gives the level the finishing touch it deserves.

But I'm rambling here. **

Thoughts? Anybody want to help out? :) We are very much beginners when it comes to editing the Doom source, but its nice to share ideas about how to implement the next step of the Doom engine.

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Agentbromsnor said:

I've grown a bit tired of Doom-episode style WAD's, so I want to experiment and see if we can push the Doom-engine into the right direction when it comes to shaders and other good stuff.

I like apples, so I bought a car.

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boris said:

I like apples, so I bought a car.


I think you misread my post. Alot of people make Doom-episode style (mega) WAD's, which don't really need to make use of things like OpenGL to be played. Since I'm not that interested in making Doom-episodes I'm trying to be more innovative with new game mechanics.

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I'd love to see GZDoom feature a little bit more in the eye candy department (coronas, some kind of expanded lighting system) but without a polygon renderer ala the somewhat unpopular Vavoom, I think you're going to find 90% of what would bring Doom to even early 2000s graphics standards is going to be impossible.

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GZDoom is a polygon based renderer.

The problem with adding new features is that there's nobody who could do it.

My time is limited and before adding new rendering features the renderer needs a large rewrite and cleanup - optimally bringing up to modern programming techniques.

This requires someone with time and motivation.

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Well, I know somebody who is good at C and C++ (I think the Doom engine was written in C, right?). He's been tinkering with the code a bit, but the new shader stuff that he tried to implement didn't work (which, like I said perhaps has to do with the engine's 2D rendering system, but I'm not sure). Thats kinda why I made this topic.

So my goal is to implement something like shaders (just look at the polymer-renderer for the Build engine; it IS possible) so that the code is acceptable to the engine. I don't know if the guy I mentioned earlier is the man for the job to rewrite the code, but who knows.

Sorry for being a bit unclear. :P

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Ed said:

I'd love to see GZDoom feature a little bit more in the eye candy department (coronas, some kind of expanded lighting system) but without a polygon renderer ala the somewhat unpopular Vavoom, I think you're going to find 90% of what would bring Doom to even early 2000s graphics standards is going to be impossible.


Yeah, I'm disappointed with the lights in GZDoom as well, thats the reason why I brought up the shader stuff. I think texture based lighting would be awesome. There's this video on Youtube of a guy who made a sector-editor for a 3D-engine, which looks awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFPw-nfFHbI

But really anything limit removing would be great, right? And yes, I do realise that we have to basically tear down the Doom engine's code to get to all that good stuff, but it would be great nonetheless.

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Hiya.

Have you thought about going in a bit of a different direction? Maybe not using the DOOM engine, per se, but the DOOM3 engine...but building an editor (or modifying one, like QuArK, or even Doombuilder2, for example) that allows one to "build levels as fast as in a regular DOOM-engine-editor"?

I posed a similar Q to the guys over on the semi-dead QuArK forums about being able to draw a map out "in 2D" (ala a regular DOOM editor), but have the rooms, doors, etc actually be created "in 3D" as one normally does for Quake, DOOM3, etc. engines.

For me, that is the SINGLE most creativity-sucking full-stop editing hurdle. I can build a 6-sided room, with three exits at various heights, one with a lift, one with curved stairs leading up to it, place a dozen monsters and a powerup treasure, in Doombuilder2 in about 5 minutes, tops. Doing the same thing in QuArK (or QERadient, DoomEdit, etc) would *easily* take 10x or more time.

Anyway, just a wishful thought. :)

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pming said:

Hiya.

Have you thought about going in a bit of a different direction? Maybe not using the DOOM engine, per se, but the DOOM3 engine...but building an editor (or modifying one, like QuArK, or even Doombuilder2, for example) that allows one to "build levels as fast as in a regular DOOM-engine-editor"?

I posed a similar Q to the guys over on the semi-dead QuArK forums about being able to draw a map out "in 2D" (ala a regular DOOM editor), but have the rooms, doors, etc actually be created "in 3D" as one normally does for Quake, DOOM3, etc. engines.

For me, that is the SINGLE most creativity-sucking full-stop editing hurdle. I can build a 6-sided room, with three exits at various heights, one with a lift, one with curved stairs leading up to it, place a dozen monsters and a powerup treasure, in Doombuilder2 in about 5 minutes, tops. Doing the same thing in QuArK (or QERadient, DoomEdit, etc) would *easily* take 10x or more time.

Anyway, just a wishful thought. :)


Exactly. I know how to use WorldCraft (the old version, not the new Hammer editor that's glued to Steam these days) and I made several maps for Counter-Strike 1.6 and Source, but even though those type of editors are pretty solid, there's nothing as stimulating as drawing a map in 2D, because it stimulates your creative drive with the easy workflow.

And yes, I thought about using a 'real' 3D-engine with a different editor before, but IMO thats just as much a hassle since I know nobody that has any prior experience with creating editors (unless somebody can convince CodeImp to make one for Quake or something).

Another thing is the Doom engine's easy filesystem. With Doom you can convienently find most of your stuff in your WAD file, while most modern games use multiple files (and extensions) for the entire game storage.

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