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MRB_Doom

Socialist Francois Hollande wins French presidency

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He wants to raise the minimum wage, hire 60,000 more teachers and lower the retirement age from 62 to 60 for some workers.

This doesn't seem sustainable.

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this may sound optimistic, but i've recently read an analysis that kinda puts it in a perspective... france will still be constricted by the neoconservative rules set up by the european union and hollande with the socialist party seem even more aggressive concerning libya or syria.

hollande is a lesser evil, but let's not give him a nobel prize for it, kay? :P

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Sounds Great, but I don't think that's what the economy needs.

Also, nothing about that seems particularly socialist. Well maybe to an American.

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Well poor people spend more cash on bullshit (Beers, TVs, blocks for their cars on the lawn), so raising the minimum wage keeps the ca$h flowing around doesn't it?

And don't say that just causes inflation. Because that is scientifically-proven BS.

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bytor said:

1...2...3...

The damn commie bastard!

The prick is trying to make it easier on the working man? What an commie asshole! Quick, someone make some corporate tax cuts so I can feel better.

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I was kidding, Technician. Seemed the appropriate response to your post: "Also, nothing about that seems particularly socialist. Well maybe to an American."

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians are lying assholes and I just don't care anymore who they put in office anywhere.

Also, I got my blocks from the side of the road. The car that I have on store-bought jackstands looks the best, though. :P

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Mr. T said:

Well poor people spend more cash on bullshit (Beers, TVs, blocks for their cars on the lawn), so raising the minimum wage keeps the ca$h flowing around doesn't it?

And don't say that just causes inflation. Because that is scientifically-proven BS.

Raising minimum wage doesn't cause inflation. Printing money does. Raising minimum wage causes job losses.

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Raising minimum wage causes job losses.

So does lowering it to such a level that people require multiple jobs to be able to pay for necessities.

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I have a question for all the French doomers currently living in the Fifth Republic: Is Hollande a new De Gaulle or is he simply an Anglo-American puppet?

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Probably neither.

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MRB_Doom said:

I have a question for all the French doomers currently living in the Fifth Republic: Is Hollande a new De Gaulle or is he simply an Anglo-American puppet?

He will be nothing until he proves himself. He'll have a hell-lot of job because many big companies waited the end of the elections to fire a lot of workers, because markets will push us to our limits (playing with our debt) to make him more cooperative and because even if the president of the European Central Bank finally agrees with him about how we could end the crisis without austerity, Merkel, Cameron and co will try to protect their interests until the last bullet.

Good luck Hollande, it is hard times and the last president was doomed by what will probably be considered as less hard economic times. It is how we will know if he is worth entering history books, or if he will be anecdotical.

As for the american-puppet thing, I doubt it. He knows he'd better negociate with new economic powers like Brazil and China. We will quit OTAN (Edit : NATO, sorry) too if he respects his program.

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MRB_Doom said:

I have a question for all the French doomers currently living in the Fifth Republic: Is Hollande a new De Gaulle or is he simply an Anglo-American puppet?


Odd question to ask. He is neither of these things, and as far from either as possible.

Sad day for 48% of us, but, well, Hollande won, no point being obstructive about it. All the best to him, and here's hoping he'll prove those of us who don't believe in him wrong.

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I really have no idea what Hollande stands for, maybe I should take a look on the net etc.

Is he anti-Globalization?

It would be refreshing if he could introduce a European Tobin tax, or a Wall Street financial transaction tax. 1 % for every speculative trade goes to the finance ministry or something of that nature.

Fight the oligarchs and people will find out what real democracy looks like (ye ye Occupy).

Goldman Sachs is obviously the biggest threat to Europe with their heinous austerity measures.

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Technician said:

Also, nothing about that seems particularly socialist. Well maybe to an American.


The definition of "socialism" the average American has is worlds apart from, well, the rest of the world. For you, it's something between Red Scare and Cold War and includes even regimes such as Hoxha's and Pol Pot's. Everything is one and the same, and happy to leave it at that.

The rest of the world has a nifty little concept called "Social Democracy", "Euro Socialism" and so on, nothing to do with those regimes.

On the flip side, both the Republican and Democratic party in the USA would rank quite "right" or even "far right" on the political scale if they were European.

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It would be refreshing if he could introduce a European Tobin tax, or a Wall Street financial transaction tax. 1 % for every speculative trade goes to the finance ministry or something of that nature.

Fight the oligarchs and people will find out what real democracy looks like (ye ye Occupy).


That would be hilariously true, because not at all in the way you expect it would be.

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Maes said:

On the flip side, both the Republican and Democratic party in the USA would rank quite "right" or even "far right" on the political scale if they were European.

Yes. As I see it democrates look like our right and republicans to our far right in France.

Our president would have been quite terrifying for the tea baggers in America.

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MRB_Doom said:

It would be refreshing if he could introduce a European Tobin tax, or a Wall Street financial transaction tax. 1 % for every speculative trade goes to the finance ministry or something of that nature.

Brussels' never going to let him do that, because London and Berlin will veto any initiative of this kind.

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Gez said:

Brussels' never going to let him do that, because London and Berlin will veto any initiative of this kind.


True. There is also the issue of these gangster like credit rating agencies. I read about some female prosecutor in Italy some months ago who tried to get one of these "agencies" in her country in court, but I guess that failed.


I think the Euro will collapse, it was never meant to create a stable Europe, but to divide it and conquer all our asses.

As for Hollande, maybe we will see some kind of mean reform against the bankers. That would ease the tensions between the oligarchs and the people (Oh who am I kidding).

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Wagi said:
and lower the retirement age from 62 to 60 for some workers (...) This doesn't seem sustainable.


That "lowered retirement age" only applies if you have put in 41 working years prior. So somebody who didn't study and got himself a construction job at 18 can now retire at 60 after a 42-year long career. The guy who did get to University and started working at age 28 can also get out early, but will miss out on his full pension because he has not put in his minimum years on the workforce (which would be the case at age 69).


Funny how this is never mentioned in the type of articles whose headlines scream "socialist takes over".

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Mordeth said:

Funny how this is never mentioned in the type of articles whose headlines scream "socialist takes over".

Same for the taxes on companies. "You will kill our little businesses!!!".

Well, it was previously 33.33% on every company. Now it will be 15 for the very small, 30 for small to medium and 35 for the big ones. Companies delocalizing will have to refund public money sent and those investing locally will be rewarded with tax-cuts.

Holy shit, we are killing businesses and employment.

Edit: also for the 75% shitstorm on millionaires, "they'll have only 250K of their annual salary!!!". It's 75% for the money got over 1 million. The UMP played a lot with the confusion.

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Mordeth said:

That "lowered retirement age" only applies if you have put in 41 working years prior. So somebody who didn't study and got himself a construction job at 18 can now retire at 60 after a 42-year long career. The guy who did get to University and started working at age 28 can also get out early, but will miss out on his full pension because he has not put in his minimum years on the workforce (which would be the case at age 69).


Funny how this is never mentioned in the type of articles whose headlines scream "socialist takes over".

Having to work past sixty is actually really depressing. You're practically at death's doorstep before you can enjoy a few of your golden years.

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Take into account statistics: the less educated you are the more physical your work is, giving a short life expectancy. On the other hand I can't count white collar old dudes saying "hey guys, I am 65 and I want to continue my work, bunch of lazy morons!!!".

This very same category of the workforce has voted in majority for Hollande anyway.

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K!r4 said:


Edit: also for the 75% shitstorm on millionaires, "they'll have only 250K of their annual salary!!!". It's 75% for the money got over 1 million.


And why should people actually want to stay in France if the state just takes 75% of their money away?

I am no fan of taxing high income earners almost nothing like the USA does, but taxing high income earners 75% is huge bullshit and I will laugh so hard once this laughable idea has (and it will) backfired horribly.

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