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Vortex Lord

Is Hexen forgotten?

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I`m interested how much of a interest there is Hexen?
Pretty much every Doom mod uses Hexen`s features, every source port has ACS, poly objects, glitter-like bridges, etc.
I don`t see any topics at all about Hexen or any pwads for it, so I thought if I might ask.

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People have done some things with Heretic and Hexen, but not too awful much. It really sucks, because I love both those games and their atmosphere. I'd kill to see more done to them along the lines of what people have done with doom.

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I forgot to add I noticed some mistakes with DB2 and ZDoom.
ZDoom shares Morph Ovum between Heretic and Hexen, even though Hexen has Morph Ovum`s sprite it does not have it as a inventory item (I have vanilla Hexen; Deathkings; Hexen II and Portals. I`m a Hexen fanatic).
Doom Builder 2`s config for Hexen uses Doom`s keys. That killed me when I started modding.

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Not to mention a Hexen (mega)wad in the works, called Curse of the Demon God.

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Vortex Lord said:

Pretty much every Doom mod uses Hexen`s features

Haha, no.

Vortex Lord said:

every source port has ACS, poly objects, glitter-like bridges, etc.

Haha, no.

Vortex Lord said:

ZDoom shares Morph Ovum between Heretic and Hexen, even though Hexen has Morph Ovum`s sprite it does not have it as a inventory item

Only if you cheat.

See, in order to support custom inventory items, ZDoom had to change how the item-giving cheats work. They look through inventory items that are available and give them. To know if an inventory item is available, it looks if its sprite actually exists in one of the loaded archives.

Since Hexen provides morph ovum sprites, it succeeds on that test and there you go.

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Hexen occasionally has some mods, but it has never been anywhere near as popular as DOOM. Aside from economic factors (DOOM had more promotion, spread more and sold more and was the original and the base for Hexen), perhaps it never caught up more because it's more "geeky" even within what DOOM stands for, being more of a niche thing (more "weird" in style and technically more complicated).

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printz said:

Haha, mostly yes. And that's called ZDoom.


Because ZDoom is also EDGE, Eternity, Legacy, PrBoom, Doomsday and Chocolate Doom.

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myk said:

Hexen occasionally has some mods, but it has never been anywhere near as popular as DOOM. Aside from economic factors (DOOM had more promotion, spread more and sold more and was the original and the base for Hexen), perhaps it never caught up more because it's more "geeky" even within what DOOM stands for, being more of a niche thing (more "weird" in style and technically more complicated).


It could also be because it's not a very good game.

It baffles me how people rave about these titles (lumping Heretic and Strife in there) in the Doom community. As if being a commercial product based on the Doom engine was the sole reason you needed to enjoy a game. Tech porn might have made sense back when this stuff was new, now it just looks weird.

I can believe there are many people who genuinely believe these are masterpieces regardless of the engine used, but I'm just as certain if it wasn't for the common engine, a fair number of you wouldn't be remembering any of these any more than the dozens of similar and similarly average games released at the time.

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I agree with you on Strife, but Heretic and Hexen were fairly good.

I guess my issue with Hexen is that it felt like there wasn't much difficulty difference between the monster types, also a couple of the hubs were too convoluted.

Heretic, however, was awesome.

Also, the setting of Heretic and Hexen are considerably more restricted- It's harder to make a creative mapset with vanilla resources for those wads.

Doom's resources are way more versatile and can be used to represent a wider variety of environments, so there's more opportunities for creativity when it comes to making levels.

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Try as I might, I don't think I've ever gotten beyond the third hub in Hexen. The first map is the only one I really enjoyed. The gameplay just doesn't work for me.

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Vortex Lord said:

Doom Builder 2`s config for Hexen uses Doom`s keys. That killed me when I started modding.

Sure you're not mapping in (Doom in Hexen format)? Release 1553 of DB2 has the correct keys for both Hexen and ZDoom (Hexen) editing configs.

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Kristus appears to be the only person who is making a mod for Hexen that is of any value. Hexen is a long boring game to me but what he's got cookin up looks like it's worth the wait.

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I don't know why Hexen never caught on as well as Doom. I must say, I enjoy the extra features when making ZDoom centric maps.

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GreyGhost said:

Sure you're not mapping in (Doom in Hexen format)? Release 1553 of DB2 has the correct keys for both Hexen and ZDoom (Hexen) editing configs.

I use a SVN Build for a long time, downloaded their cofigs a long time ago to get across this problem as I said, this killed me when I started (end of last year).
And yes I`m not mapping for Doom in Hexen map format but just for Hexen (in UDMF for about a month).

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First 3 episodes of Heretic were good but then things just seem to be a bit tedious and repetitive after that. Hexen, while the first map was awesome, is an acquired taste and hard for me to get into. Never played Strife though.

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Phml said:

It could also be because it's not a very good game.

It baffles me how people rave about these titles (lumping Heretic and Strife in there) in the Doom community. As if being a commercial product based on the Doom engine was the sole reason you needed to enjoy a game. Tech porn might have made sense back when this stuff was new, now it just looks weird.

I can believe there are many people who genuinely believe these are masterpieces regardless of the engine used, but I'm just as certain if it wasn't for the common engine, a fair number of you wouldn't be remembering any of these any more than the dozens of similar and similarly average games released at the time.


yeah, it amazes me people like different games than me, that is weird man...

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I think Heretic and Hexen are great. Strife gets pretty boring within a very short period of time for me, though. There's just something about Strife that doesn't really click with me for some reason.

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Marnetmar said:

Strife gets pretty boring within a very short period of time for me, though.

This happens with me also. :P

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Hexen is wonderful, and misfeatures like Wolf3d-style weapon count, shielded Heresiarch or shielded Centaurs can well be lived with. I think that ZDoom mods which add some features only make it better.

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TheDarkArchon said:

Because ZDoom is also EDGE, Eternity, Legacy, PrBoom, Doomsday and Chocolate Doom.

Probably should note that Eternity has the better part of Hexen implemented already. Hexen map format, ACS with a large number of the line specials working, polyobjects, SNDINFO, player flying (in newest SVN build), jumping, up/down look, etc.

The ongoing inventory-branch will, when it's finished, add support for inventory, which will apply to Heretic, Hexen, and Strife.

The subsequently planned udmf-branch will involve completing the rest of Hexen map format support.

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I'm currently working on a zdoom/heretic mod right now if that counts. It adds a lot of rpg-ish elements and new stuff, but it'll be for heretic.

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All of these games came out during my prime and most impressionable gaming years. IMO Hexen and especially Heretic are completely forgettable.

I'm not a fantasy type of guy anyway, but Heretic seemed to have no character. A professional Doom TC is the best I would ever refer to it.

Hexen did enhance/change enough to stand as it's own game. The classes and inventory made it a little deeper. Still not my cup of tea.

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I enjoy Heretic's level design, art direction, and character a LOT more than Doom's and Heretic is the only reason I started mapping in the first place.

Hexen on the other hand is a fun game that is a great change of pace from Doom but fills in a different niche for me and is only playable when I'm in a certain mood.

40oz said:

Kristus appears to be the only person who is making a mod for Hexen that is of any value. Hexen is a long boring game to me but what he's got cookin up looks like it's worth the wait.

And this is looking quite promising too: http://www.wadsinprogress.info/index.php?a=listwads&wad=1472

Also, Phml you almost brought out the fanboy side of me out, fuck you man. :P

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There was a nice slew of good-to-great quality Heretic wads around the time Curse was released, and I can't help but wonder if Kristus can pull that rabbit out of the hat again. I enjoy Heretic a good deal, and I really do believe the original released showed strong map design to boost its strong gameplay. Was it because of the engine? No one can say for sure, but given its competent style and direction, I'd say they had a winner either.

Of course, I thought Hexen would blow my mind when I read the concept on paper, but the execution of it made me want to tug my hair right out of my scalp. Annoying, but a good mod for it would be awesome.

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HeXen gets a lot of hate from people who have an aversion to using their brains on a video game. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think certain people dislike it for the same reason they dislike Eternal DOOM: significant puzzle elements.

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