Let's say I wanted to make a Doom 64 revenant...

[Koko Ricky]

I have some pretty good sprite skills and I'm thinking, if I examine the original revenant's frames, I could, from scratch, create something similar but in the style of Doom 64. Let's say I do this. Would there be people on Doomworld that would be willing to code it into the game so it can be used in Doom 64 EX?

[Mechadon]

I'm sure if the sprites are of high enough quality (also if they match the existing art style), then yea, someone out there would probably do the behavior coding.

Hey, if you manage to make a 64-ized Revenant, you should consider doing a Chaingunner, Archvile, and Mastermind too ;)

[yellowmadness54]

I'd really like to see this.

[Koko Ricky]

Just want to let you know right off the bat, this is NOT a thread where I'll be posting my progress for this possible project. I am, at this point, merely interested in seeing if someone(s) will help me actually put it in the game, and it looks like I'll be able to get that help. I'll be making another thread once I start this project. I would totally do all four of the missing enemies, but should probably start with the chain gunner first, as I think that would be the least difficult.

[Reisal]

I remember someone did a chaingunner on ZDoom forums which was based off the shotgun/pistol zombie.

[Gez]

I've yet to see a Doom64 chaingunner/revenant/spider mastermind/archvile created from frankenspriting Doom II and Doom 64 sprites that looked anywhere near something that could remotely be described as being perhaps vaguely convincing on a foggy day, if you don't look at it too much.

Supposing convincing sprites were made, coding them into the game wouldn't be too much of a problem -- though for the time being, you'd have to do so in a fork of Kaiser's Doom64 EX.

[Kaiser]

If the sprites look official enough, I'd support them in EX.

[Marcaek]

Didn't you say that you'd be considering support for something like DECORATE in the future Kaiser?

[Kaiser]

Yup, but I can also hard-code it in via info.c/h, assuming I don't get decorate support in soon enough.

[MajorRawne]

Look at the Revenant from the PC/PSX/etc versions of Doom, then imagine what it would look like if it was completely recoloured and looked like it had stood too close to a heat source until it had melted to resemble a walking pile of poo.

Ta-da! A Doom 64 monster.

Sorry to 64 fans by the way.

[esselfortium]

MajorRawne said:

Look at the Revenant from the PC/PSX/etc versions of Doom, then imagine what it would look like if it was completely recoloured and looked like it had stood too close to a heat source until it had melted to resemble a walking pile of poo.

Ta-da! A Doom 64 monster.

Sorry to 64 fans by the way.

Thank you on behalf of Doomworld for this helpful and informative post.

[Snakes]

MajorRawne said:

Look at the Revenant from the PC/PSX/etc versions of Doom, then imagine what it would look like if it was completely recoloured and looked like it had stood too close to a heat source until it had melted to resemble a walking pile of poo.

Ta-da! A Doom 64 monster.

Sorry to 64 fans by the way.

Say I wanted to make a MajorRawne post...

Imagine a sensible post from a regular forum member. Then dumb it down to the lowest common denominator by adding refernces to bowel movements and the occasional nonsensical word.

Ta-da! A MajorRawne post.

Sorry MajorRawne fans, by the way.

[Vermil]

Kaiser said:

Yup, but I can also hard-code it in via info.c/h, assuming I don't get decorate support in soon enough.

Wouldn't that create a potential headache for other ports that wish to support Doom64?

Realm667; the right way to do something like this

Skulltag, ZDoom, MBF etc etc's added monsters; the wrong way to do something like this.

IMO of course.

[Kaiser]

True, but hopefully decorate support will be in by then. I don't expect someone to create a full sprite set for the Revenant anytime soon.

[Livo]

Dumb suggestion; perhaps you could base the D64 revenant on the original Revenant model? Add an armoured vest, perhaps put a little bit of dripping flesh or gore on the face and/or also some small cybernetics on the hips and legs and voila.

[Marnetmar]

pls no armored vest pls

[ComicMischief]

Livo said:

Dumb suggestion; perhaps you could base the D64 revenant on the original Revenant model?

This is so totally not a dumb suggestion. I reckon this should be done, there's an air of authenticity about it; and it would fit in with the somewhat gorier 'props' Doom64 has.

Livo also said:

Add an armoured vest, perhaps put a little bit of dripping flesh or gore on the face and/or also some small cybernetics on the hips and legs and voila.

I do disagree with these parts though, leave as-is I reckon. It's creepy enough without going overkill.

Also, OP: how are you planning to do these sprites? You say you have 'pretty good sprite skills', but this is ambiguous -- if you're planning to pixel-art these things from scratch it probably won't fit so well. Looks to my eyes like the original Doom64 enemies were pre-rendered in a 3D package. Can anyone correct me there? :)

[Avoozl]

ComicMischief said:

Looks to my eyes like the original Doom64 enemies were pre-rendered in a 3D package. Can anyone correct me there? :)

As far as I know they did create 3d models to make sprites from.

[MajorRawne]

Sorry for messing with the thread, it was a moment of immaturity. Definitely go for the no-armour version, it looks quite horrific without it. Since the 64 version seems to be based on the PSX version, would the Rev be slow with slower projectiles, or would it be quick like on the PC?

Would you be looking towards a Spider Mastermind in the future?

[Avoozl]

Considering how the revernant in PSX Doom was only made slower so it would be easier for the console players and how Doom 64 EX is supposed to be a pc version of Doom64, I don't think the revernant should be made slow, not to mention certain monsters like the pain elemental and the arachnotron were made to be a lot tougher with their attacks in Doom 64 than their Doom 2 counterparts so it might be better to make it tougher I guess.

[scalliano]

Two fireballs at once. You know it makes sense.

[MajorRawne]

Maybe twin blasts of flame, one from each of its shoulder guns, which link together just in front of the Rev to create one powerful projectile? It would make more sense if he used one launcher to fire homing missiles and the other to fire standard missiles, but it would look cool.

[Kaiser]

Avoozl said:

As far as I know they did create 3d models to make sprites from.

It was a mix between 3D models and clay models. The bulldog demon was one of the few that wasn't a 3D model.

http://doom64ex.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/038.jpg

[ComicMischief]

Clay models! Oh man, I imagine that would be fun as hell to do.

scalliano said:

Two fireballs at once. You know it makes sense.

It really does, there's a precedent set for this kind of behaviour with Doom64's Pain Elemental, a thing which to this day frightens me.

[Koko Ricky]

ComicMischief: I don't have the 3D rendering skills to make something that would fit the Doom 64 atmosphere. But if it is completely based on each frame the original revenant, I think I could possibly create something that would work for the game's aesthetic. I think basing it on the original design would be great.

[Gez]

ComicMischief said:

It really does, there's a precedent set for this kind of behaviour with Doom64's Pain Elemental

And the arachnotron. (Though the projectiles are weaker than the PC version.)

(And even the chainsaw, in a way. Doesn't thrown projectiles, but it has duplicated blades.)

Come to think of it, it's a bit weird they haven't given four arms to the mancubuses.

[Kaiser]

Here's some of the major gameplay changes done to Doom64:

* Chaingun and super shotgun has a faster fire rate
* Pistol fires slightly faster
* Plasma gun has little to no cooldown time.
* Imp's projectiles travel MUCH slower
* Lost Souls are much more aggressive
* Shotgun guy moves slightly faster than Zombiemen
* Cacodemons are slightly more aggressive
* Arachnotron fires two projectiles and deals lesser damage
* Pain Elementals fires two lost souls and is limited to 17 souls at a time instead of 20
* Rocket projectile travels slightly faster
* Hell knights are used way more often than any other monster in the game. This is more of a balancing issue due to lack of unique monsters and the overpowering of some of the player's weapons
* Player moves slightly slower and has less friction when stopping

That said, the d64 Revenant will need to be tweaked IF needed to maintain balance for the rest of the game. I feel that the Revenant should still fire just one rocket, but his design should be updated to reflect that. Like for example, have the single launcher embedded into his chest or something. The homing missile should probably be tweaked to be much more aggressive than the vanilla version and should probably track/follow the player for longer periods of time. Damage should probably remain the same.

That said, we shouldn't do extreme changes to the Revenant's behavior. All monsters have tweaks done to them, but none of them are extremely major.

[printz]

scalliano said:

Two fireballs at once. You know it makes sense.

It would also make it like a transition to Doom 3, which Doom 64 feels like.

[ComicMischief]

Gez said:

Come to think of it, it's a bit weird they haven't given four arms to the mancubuses.

Shyeah, and should they have included Arch-Viles, line-of-sight resurrection (like their attack). Ouch.

Actually, a 4-armed Mancubus sounds like my cup of tea. Turn Doom into FPS bullet-hell. >:)

Comprehensive list there, Kaiser. Did the behaviour of the Cyberdemons change at all (not topic-related, just curious)? I noticed the faster rockets (made Watch Your Step a pain in the rear first time around with the twin Cyberdemon encounter at the end) but this seemed balanced-out by a slightly-slower firing rhythm. Could just be me, though. It's been a while and I really should dig out Doom64.

[Mechadon]

ComicMischief said:

Did the behaviour of the Cyberdemons change at all (not topic-related, just curious)?

Unless I'm mistaken, the rocket the Cyberdemon fires doesn't spawn from the middle of the sprite (like in vanilla Doom), but instead actually fires from his rocket launcher on the left/right side (can't remember which side :P). I could be wrong but I seem to remember using that to my advantage on Cat and Mouse the first few times I played it :P

Concerning the Revenant behavior, I think it would be worth trying out a double homing rocket attack, just to see how it affects gameplay. I think it would make the Revenant feel right at home with the other monster if you, say, had him fire one projectile and then another 1 or 2 seconds later (sort of a staggered fire). The damage per projectile could be decreased by half~ish and the homing turn radius could be increased slightly. Though it all depend on how it affects the gameplay in the end. Having a singular but more aggressive homing fireball would still fit in with the "enhanced" Doom 64 monsters in my opinion.

Just my two cents :)