[MAP] Last Chance : [LARGE : 30min long.] (Doom2)

*********************************************
NOTE: This thread is over 2 years old.
********************************************


My large doom2 map is done and delivers about 30 minutes of gameplay.

Enjoy.

Requirements:
Doom2

Download: http://old.ryanbriscall.com/games/level-design/doom/last-chance/krsp1.zip (Updated: August 31, 2014)
Map: MAP01

* What is included *

New levels              : 1
Sounds                  : No
Music                   : MAP20
Graphics                : No
Dehacked/BEX Patch      : No
Demos                   : No

* Play Information *

Game                    : DOOM2
Map #                   : Map01
Single Player           : Designed for
Cooperative 2-4 Player  : Designed for
Deathmatch 2-4 Player   : Player starts only
Difficulty Settings     : Yes


* Construction *

Base                    : New from scratch
Build Time              : 9 days
Editor(s) used          : Doom Builder 2.1.1.1466
May Not Run With        : Vanilla ports
Tested With             : Odamex 0.6.0
Map is built on previous years of mapping(for quake) experience, and the advice from several threads and documents such as "What NOT to do in Wads", "How id Software did it", and "Traits/features you DON'T like seeing in levels", etc.

My experience is with the quake engine mostly, however long ago--in the 90s--I did do a couple of test "box" maps in doom--using DCK--and I did a couple of small maps in duke3d--using Build. Unfortunately a harddrive crash lost all this data to the void.

---

***************************
UPDATE August 31, 2014:
***************************
  • Fixed some missing textures.
  • Spoiler

    Fixed the way pinkies come out near end (on Hard).

***************************
UPDATE August 21, 2013:
***************************

  • cleaned up krsp1.txt (as suggested by eiUACei)
  • changed to map01 for map01's sky
  • copied/using music from map20
  • adjusted the way shortcut teleporters are initiated/used, by having the start teleports open up only; and the exit teleports open from inside. (as suggested by eiUACei (above))
  • improved secret areas to be more noticeable. (based on what I saw from people's recorded demos, where it was a shame to see players miss so many of the secrets).
  • removed additional colored walls(fake secrets)
  • revealed/marked many(if not all) secrets on the map.
  • reduced number of demons at yellow door
  • improved the blue-key area so that it's more noticeable that a door is present(will open upon key pickup).
  • improved start-room layout to help make shortcut-teleports(pillars) more noticeable. textured door parts of shortcut-teleports(pillars). (based on what I say from people's recorded demos, where a person did not remember that there are two pillars and should try going through the further pillar to be teleported further in the map)
  • removed all blocking objects in computer/pillar maze room
  • Spoiler

    adjusted the yellow-key area so that demon comes out a little earlier. (based on what I say from people's recorded demos)

  • Spoiler

    closed off cacodemons holes in warehouse walls, and made it so the walls open up.

  • Spoiler

    doubled the exploding barrels/blockade in computer maze room. (based on what I say from people's recorded demos, where a person got through without even blowing up the barrel)

  • Spoiler

    added more dark indents into rock walls outside, to make last secret room(ammo room) less likely to be discovered

  • added more items to red-key room's corners.
  • improved lighting (more lighting variation) throughout entire level: added more lights, and lighting areas, and dark areas inside and outside(mountains).
  • fixed missing textures on rising stairs, in red-key room
  • fixed so you can't get stuck between barrels and rising stairs, in red-key room
  • improved progression of monsters: hell knight -> baron of hell.
  • improved final room fight to be a little more interesting.
  • fixed up end-room back-door path to two-way but only after one-way(starting at end room only) is initiated. (based on what I say from people's recorded demos, where a person jumped down but then had to run through the entire level again to get back to the end room).
  • added more monsters, and ambushing; to make use of empty space and make level more difficult.
  • will not split wad up into multiple maps (unless people convince me to). i was very tempted/close to doing this(i had it all planned out of how i would do it) but, after much thought and discussion, i decided to not split this up into multiple levels because 1) you can save your progress at any time, and 2) some people do not consider this a large map.

Share this post


Link to post

DISCLAIMER: I am a bad mapper who only knows some tech stuff and fails when it comes to making an actual map. So I will monstly show some tiny bugs.

Lets go... MAP07 music on a long map? HATE. IDMUS20 immediately!

I find the chainsaw secret and get three secrets at the price of one. Now this explains why there's 36 secrets! Don't make more than one sector marked "secret" per every actual secret. Almost half of secrets in you map count incorrectly. The next secret shows the final room and has nothing in it. What's the point?


Strange water.


Both lit up areas count as secrets. Lots of stuff at top of crates and lifts NOT looking like detail make these areas kinda non-secret but maybe I am wrong. But that soulsphere is defineltly a secret.

Then I go into more crate storage areas with more stuff on top of crates. I like how it is possible to climb all the crates. It makes the area feel realistic like you can get anywhere if you want. And climbing into windows makes it even better!
At the end is a mandatory crate-climbing sequence while all the crate-climbing before was completely optional and secret.


Couldn't find a way through the maze so isn't this secret mandatory?


Hmm, looks like this area has been designed to make this map limit-removing 8). That soulsphere is a secret, really? I mean you need to do the same jumps to progress the map...


Thinking it is a secret, I jumped into this window. Turned out it allows to skip a small section of map and get directly to teleporter side of OH SO MUCH BARRELS room. The teleporter can teleport me back but it is pointless since the lift can't be called down from this side :(.


This secret teleporter does nothing and doesn't even count as secert. Why did I try to figure out how to open it?



And isn't that BFG AND LOTS OF AMMO room near the end too easy to find? I thought it was just a small cave untill I got 3 secrets :).

I really liked the interconnection of the whole map. Ending up in barred parts of familiar areas after a long way is cool. The visuals appear beautiful despite being undetailed! And there is NOTHING wrong in gameplay. Mapping experience and reading " "What NOT to do in Wads", "How id Software did it", and "Traits/features you DON'T like seeing in levels", etc. " definetly show :). Overall I really like this map.

Must be frustrating to die in final room's inescapable pit though ;).

Share this post


Link to post

hey eiUACei, thanks for playing the map and thanks a lot for the feedback.

let me respond to some of the items you mentioned:

- Yes, that map07 was a poor choice for long gameplay music, I realize that now. I checked out map20 music, and I liked it. Using map20 now.

- I agree that it's a little strange to have all the sectors in a secret room to be tagged as sector. A secret room should only count as 1 secret. These have now been fixed.

- The secret that shows the final room but has nothing to do with it; the point is aesthetic reasons onlys. The reason you can access this secret from the start is only because for aesthetic reasons; for a strange tease view. The reason you can access this secret from the end is only because for comfortable roaming and multiplayer deathmatch.

- Very interesting that you found a piece of wall in the water there. This has been fixed now.

- Both those lit up areas in the central room are no longer flagged as being secret.

- There is indeed a way out of the maze. That secret is not mandatory, and I've also fixed that secret to truly appear as secret on the map.

- I agree about the soulsphere on pillars should not be a secret because pillars is part of the journey.

- Interesting shortcut you found there with the window. I've looked into this, and I've determined that it is okay. You skipped a small part and though I have strict guidelines about that, I will accept this shortcut. Nothing is broken from you taking that shortcut. The lift works from up top by walking on it, and works from down below by pressing on it. I'm not sure why you had issues triggering that lift from down below? What engine did you use?

- That secret teleport at the end should not be shown on the map, and it is an exit only. The entrance to that teleport is at the starting room, pillar #2.

- The end BFG room is no longer flagged as being secret.

I've updated the map/zip file for the download link now.

Edit:
- changed first view room (secret) to be less meaningless. (added monster, and item.)
- changed first view room (secret) door inside wall from 'shoot-to-open' to 'push-to-open'
- changed opposite entrance--for first view room (secret)--to appear more secret even though it's not a door.
- removed secret flag from several sectors.
- removed secret flag from computer pillar maze soulsphere pillar. Reason: travelling the pillars is part of the journey.
- fixed several secret doors to appear as secret. (not show up on map.)

Share this post


Link to post
arkore said:

- Yes, that map07 was a poor choice for long gameplay music, I realize that now. I checked out map20 music, and I liked it. Using map20 now.

The sky is now kinda less fitting... An option is to move your map to MAP01, embed the MAP20 music into the wad and call it D_RUNNIN. This way you keep the first sky and make the wad less confusing to play.

arkore said:

The lift works from up top by walking on it, and works from down below by pressing on it. I'm not sure why you had issues triggering that lift from down below? What engine did you use?

Yes. Indeed it does work from down below by pressing on it. BUT ONLY ONCE :(.

I use whatever latest GZDoom release (not SVN) and "Doom" compatibility profile. But this lift has caused me to check this map in Chocolate Doom. So I shoot that secret near the beginning that shows the final room and... THE WHOLE MAP F***S UP!

That's a common error. A general rule is that if you use any NON-DOOR action on a linedef with TAG 0, then an effect gets applied to all sectors with tag 0. And it usually means that an effect applies TO THE WHOLE MAP! Source ports ignore these errors to reduce annoyance of playing such maps. And NON-DOOR action means anything that is not beginning with D in two-letter notation of doom actions. Switch that activate doors are not door actions. Shoot switches that activate doors are not door actions either...

arkore said:

- That secret teleport at the end should not be shown on the map, and it is an exit only. The entrance to that teleport is at the starting room, pillar #2.


So why does it walkover-open after leaving the building then?

arkore said:

- changed first view room (secret) to be less meaningless. (added monster, and item.)
- changed first view room (secret) door inside wall from 'shoot-to-open' to 'push-to-open'

Let's check out the item...

...and it is still shoot-to-open :/

Share this post


Link to post

euUACei,

- Hmm, you're right. Map20 sky not so good. I didn't notice that the sky changes when the level changes. I'll just change it back to Map07 until I can figure out how to do Map01 with Map20 music.
- I have changed the lift trigger to be repeatable now to allow player to travel/backtrack multiple times there.
- I tested the first secret door (the tiny one) in chocolate doom now, and I noticed an issue as well. Both doors open when I shoot the one door. Interesting note about the "D" NON-DOOR/tag 0, thanks. There is another issue with this as well in a different port. For example, in DoomLegacy port, the door did not even open when shot. I've changed this door to push-to-open now. Works fine in Odamex though, heh.
- The teleport exit opens after you leave the building because that is the checkpoint. You've passed a certain point that triggers the door to the teleport start and end points in the map. The hidden doors for this teleport start/exit opens when you are leaving the building because leaving the building is 100 feet away from that door because it's less likely the player will hear it and not pay any attention to it.
- That is a funny pic. I've added more items to the secret room now.
- What I meant by "changed first view room (secret) door inside wall from 'shoot-to-open' to 'push-to-open'" is that I changed this for only one side of the door. This may have caused another issue, but it's not a problem anymore because I've changed this entire door to be 'push-to-open' now.

Thanks again for the feedback,

I've updated the map again for the download link above.

Share this post


Link to post
arkore said:

- Hmm, you're right. Map20 sky not so good. I didn't notice that the sky changes when the level changes. I'll just change it back to Map07 until I can figure out how to do Map01 with Map20 music.


Use any WAD editor (SLumpEd, SLADE 3). Just copy the D_MESSAG lump from doom2.wad into your wad and rename it to D_RUNNIN.

arkore said:

- The teleport exit opens after you leave the building because that is the checkpoint. You've passed a certain point that triggers the door to the teleport start and end points in the map. The hidden doors for this teleport start/exit opens when you are leaving the building because leaving the building is 100 feet away from that door because it's less likely the player will hear it and not pay any attention to it.


So why not just make the walkover line that only opens the teleport on the start and make the destination teleport simply openable from inside?

Actually, that's just some tiny details. So why not remove stuff from .txt file that's not supposed to be there. Like (filename of primary file, (describe if yes), (list unusual files the player is expected to have), empty fields, etc...

Sorry. Nothing but tiny details left :/.

EDIT: Why do I always forget it? The ending fight is very boring unless I go full BFG autofire. I can't explain why. Maybe the monster placement is too random. Maybe it is set in probably the most generic location of the map. Maybe it is the same stuff as seen in lots of other maps but it is supposed to be special. Maybe it is just me...

Share this post


Link to post

No one else to try this map? Weekend gone by, and only one person tried it? Heh.

Here's a testimonial for you guys.

2012-06-22 Test Results:

Dude,

That was awesome! That is now one of my favorite levels. I loved the computer pillar puzzle and the teleporter puzzle. They weren't hard enough to be annoying, but they weren't trivial either. The gameplay was superb. There were no dick moves and every fight was well thought out IMO. And you structured the areas well too, I liked that I didn't need to hike back through the map to get back to the keyed doors. There was no real final battle, but that's okay. This map doesn't need one. I'd tag some areas at the beginning as secrets though, like the chainsaw, and the first super shotgun maybe. I'd suggest putting a green armor somewhere in the first few areas too. I did have a few "oh shit hitscanners" moments because of that. Overall, I'd give this map a 9/10. Tag some secrets, maybe a bigger end fight, and put in a little more armor and that goes up to a perfect 10. Great job! Here's an FDA for you to watch.


I've taken care of those items he mentioned, so I guess he rates it at 10/10 now? ;)

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, I'm the testimonial guy and yeah, I dunno why no one else is playing this. I don't even like base/earth maps that much, but I loved the crap outta this. Seriously, play this!

Share this post


Link to post

This map was way too easy for me even on Ultra-Violence but I still enjoyed it. Nice classic Doom 2 design and gameplay, I'd like to see more maps from you.

And here is a demo of my playthrough.

Share this post


Link to post

I still don't understand why mappers call their maps "DOOM2" when they take absolutely no time to make sure it will indeed work in Doom2. This map has several areas where SEG limit is over 256 and visplanes over 128. The whole point of making a vanilla map is to make sure it will work the original EXE this map won't work correctly so I just don't understand why you would make it a Doom2 format map without making sure the render limits are correct completely defeats the purpose of mapping in vanilla.

Other than that nice map.

Share this post


Link to post

You're addressing the wrong label entirely. "Doom2" does not imply "vanilla" at all, and nowhere does he use the "vanilla" label to describe his own map. Not to mention the fact that he's a new-ish mapper and probably isn't intimately familiar with vanilla limits (or even know what we're talking about at all). Either way, you're accusing him of something he hasn't done.

Also, are you trying to suggest that nobody should make a "Doom2 format map" without limiting themselves to vanilla constraints? Because that's one of the silliest things I've heard in a while. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Xaser said:

You're addressing the wrong label entirely. "Doom2" does not imply "vanilla" at all, and nowhere does he use the "vanilla" label to describe his own map. Not to mention the fact that he's a new-ish mapper and probably isn't intimately familiar with vanilla limits (or even know what we're talking about at all). Either way, you're accusing him of something he hasn't done.

Also, are you trying to suggest that nobody should make a "Doom2 format map" without limiting themselves to vanilla constraints? Because that's one of the silliest things I've heard in a while. :P


Doom2 format implies it's a vanilla map unless he stated "LIMIT REMOVING" at least in my eyes. It says DOOM2 in the text file so it sure as heck better play in DOOM2.EXE which it won't. But ya so he's a new-ish mapper and probably doesn't know better =)

Well it would be best to use BOOM format at least if your not limiting yourself to constraints. But at least state what ports it will run in and generally putting in "LIMIT REMOVING" covers this regardless of format. So I'm not trying to suggest what you've mentioned rather suggesting that you should use the format that best suits your goals.
So if your going to be going over vanilla constraints it wouldn't make sense to me to use DOOM2 format and I think most people would choose BOOM in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Pottus said:

Doom2 format implies it's a vanilla map unless he stated "LIMIT REMOVING" at least in my eyes. It says DOOM2 in the text file so it sure as heck better play in DOOM2.EXE which it won't. But ya so he's a new-ish mapper and probably doesn't know better =)

That's still an assumption you're making. Keep in mind that because vanilla limits can be easily broken, actual vanilla compatibility is a goal that often needs to be intentionally achieved. If you check the textfile and the OP, there's nothing at all suggesting the required port (if any). In such a case, we cannot determine whether or not it breaks vanilla limits, so if anything is to be assumed, it will be limit-removing. That's the default baseline these days.

I'm also not following how labeling it as "Doom2" automatically means vanilla. He's just saying "Don't run this with Ultimate Doom or Heretic, guys". That's exactly what the "Game" line from the textfile means -- you're thinking of "Advanced Engine Required," which is blank.

Share this post


Link to post

Sounds good Xaser, I think i'll have to agree with you and it was a stupid thing to nitpick in the first place, I think i'm just overly hyper-critical when it comes to render limits ;) and I'm seeing it your way now and I definitely had the wrong impression.

Share this post


Link to post

Okay I really liked this, you get a thumbs up from me. Yes it was "easy" but it's nice not to have to play ultra-conservatively to have a hope of surviving for once. Here are my small number of gripes:

  • too many invisible unmarked secrets, okay there is a computer map but tracking all the way back to get them was kind of annoying. In hindsight there is a shortcut from the very end back to the start but I didn't know that at the time.

  • Mazes. The computer maze in sector 569. Then there was an actual maze of teleporter pads. If you did actually read a bunch of "don't do this in a map" articles, I'm surprised you went and made a maze of teleporter pads.

  • too many blocking mobjs in general:

    • a number of hanging bodies that look like you can walk under them but are actually the solid kind, e.g. in the corridor opposite the blue key (things 350, 351)

    • lamps between pillars that block the player as he tries to jump across the gaps, in the computer maze, (things 467,469,470). I guess you usually use an engine which has the "actors do not have infinite height" extension or whatever.

    • I suggest using impassible linedefs with middle textures instead of huge numbers of burning barrels and the like.

  • the stairs up to the red key: some steps lack lower textures, and you can get stuck amongst the barrels if you go off the side of the stairs once they've been raised.

  • You might consider a bit of lighting variation in future. Some of the base interiors were all one bright light level. Nothing improves the look of a Doom level like a bit of light and shade I think. (The aforementioned corridor opposite the blue key being a good example.)
Anyway, yes, thank you for making this, it was surprisingly enjoyable.

Share this post


Link to post

Personally I liked the blocking objects for the fact that they were intended to block areas. It didn't look too bad like most forests made out of giant brown trees do.

This maps was pretty sweet but I felt pretty bored while playing it from all the small tier monsters. I did like the layout though and the design was pretty cool overall. I'm really happy about the chainsaw secret near the beginning, I think every good map deserves a chainsaw or berserk secret close to the starting area.

I liked this map overall, but being new to the game, it could be beneficial if you work on a series of shorter maps than one long one.

Share this post


Link to post

well, my computer friend. im on my laptop now. the laptop is just as powerful, however not powerful enough to play gzdoom+brutaldoom--all i see is a black screen and can hear the game in the background. i removed brutaldoom from autoload, and now gzdoom works.

anyways, i still can't figure out how to play .lmp files. I've tried 4 different ports(including original doom.exe) now, and it just isn't working. I tried odamax, zdaemon, legacy, and chocolate doom. command "{engine}.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file krsp1.wad -playdemo {demofile}" tried with .lmp and without .lmp extension. Grr...

---

Pottus, and Xaser. You are both right. I called it "DOOM2" because 1) it's for Doom2, and 2) no special engine required.

I actually had the intention of making this a vanilla map, and I did research on the limits and 128 limits, etc.

I did not realize that I would've gone over any of these limits. If I have, I'm okay with it.

I agree with Xaser that it is stilly to expect someone to make a map without breaking these limits. I also agree though that if my map breaks limits, then I should state "limit-removing" somewhere.

---

Thanks a lot for the feedback, RjY.
- I cannot allow the player to gain the computer map before the Teleport Maze, therefore I will look to revealing/marking many secrets on the map.

- backtracking should be minimal because of how everything is connected. the only part that may seem annoying to backtrack through is the teleport maze. not sure how i could make this less annoying. backtracking/secrets is optional--you don't have to do it to pass the level; computer map is optional too.

- the reason i did a teleport maze is because i did it differently than the others. i built this maze specifically so that you would not lose more than 15 seconds of time figuring a way out of the maze. so, it shouldn't have been annoying for you. i got the idea from the game Zelda, at the last dungeon, when it seems like an endless maze. I tuned my maze though so that there was only one path you could take, so that it would not be annoying and too much getting lost in th emaze.

- laps in between pillars will cause a block. i remember experiencing this when testing the map. i had moved the lights to better locations--locations that a player normally would not come to when playing. for example, all lights are in the center of four pillars, instead of directly inbetween 2 pillars. you would only get caught if you travel at an angle, and travel over that spot. it should be quite rare for you to encounter a lamp, but i will look into this again and see what i can do.

- for the large numbers of burning barrels; the reason i did not use impassible textured linedefs is because 1) I wanted to give the player the illusion that he is free to roam the entire room, but then the player soon realizes he isn't that free to roam, and must find a way through. if i had walls in place of barrels, then it would be obvious to the player where he needs to go, and it would make the design of the room look strange.

- i will look at the stairs for red key. last time i looked, they were all textured.

- i did not realize you could get stuck in between the raised stairs and the barrels. i will look into that.

- with regard to lighting, i tried to do a bunch of that. i agree, there is room for more, but i think i will leave it for now. next time. :)

---

40oz,
thanks for the feedback. I agree that this map could probably use a bit more higher tier monsters more frequently--but i think i'll leave that for now. next time.
I agree that it probably would've been better to split this up into smaller maps, and make it an small episode. i just don't know how to do that yet right now. :)

Share this post


Link to post
arkore said:

anyways, i still can't figure out how to play .lmp files. I've tried 4 different ports(including original doom.exe) now, and it just isn't working. I tried odamax, zdaemon, legacy, and chocolate doom. command "{engine}.exe -iwad doom2.wad -file krsp1.wad -playdemo {demofile}" tried with .lmp and without .lmp extension. Grr...


Prboom+ will most probably be the source port you`d want:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/prboom-plus/

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry it took so long, but I've updated this map now.

I believe I've addressed everyone's feedback in this update.

It's probably too late, but at least I know I addressed everyone's feedback and can now consider this map/project finished.

Thanks,

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now